SPR: Vile brainwashing?

Well, the Germans are at least definitely not depicted in a sympathetic way, but this is not my point of objection. It's... well, I described it in the first posting.

 

How does one depict the Germans in a sympathetic way in a film about a group of GIs fighting their way on to Omaha Beach and into Normandy? The military term for the Germans whom Miller and his men encounter is "the enemy."

[ 09. December 2003, 09:58 PM: Message edited by: Ahab ]

 

One interesting thing:

I read a remark on a couple of studies on soldiers at the front ( US and Israel ) that actually the less sympathy the soldiers have against the enemy soldiers the further they are from the front...

Which means that the soldiers in the trenches have most sympathy towards the enemy...

 

How does one depict the Germans in a sympathetic way in a film about a group of GIs fighting their way on to Omaha Beach and into Normandy? The military term for the Germans whom Miller and his men encounter is "the enemy." </font>[/QUOTE]I meant it in a euphemistic way. What I want to express: I await a good war movie to depict soldiers of both sides in a neutral, appropriate way. Unfortunately, this is not the case for many war movies, especially not most American ones. The enemy tends to be ugly, deceitful, brutal, plain evil. They fail to show hostile soldiers as what they mostly are - perfectly normal men, who would prefer to be at home.

In case of WW2, the actors portraying German soldiers are usually cliché: Sturdy bodies, blue-eyed glare, giant mouth and a chin, enourmously jumping forward. Not forgetting the haggard SS officer with round, metal-rimmed glasses... There are many like these in SPR, too - and then the haircut!

 

Most of you who have read my post on the treatment of the SS in Band of Brothers will be surprised when I say this but, if you want to look for a sympatheic treatment of germans, look at the very last episode of BOB when the General is addressing his troops for the last time.

Ironically, it was translated by Liebgott, the only(?) Jew in Easy company as the General orated to his troops, for Winters and Nixon...very touching.

"Men, It's been a long war, it's been a hard war. You have fought bravely, proudly for your country. You are a special group. We've found in one another a bond that exists only in combat among brothers, who've shared foxholes, held each other in dire moments, have seen death and suffered together. I'm proud to have served with each and every one of you. You deserve long and happy lives in peace."

Of course, this is the translation, it is also real great to hear it in German as well from a proud man who has lost the war and lost so many of his soldiers.

Admittingly this is the first time we actually see Germans as Men of Honour in the 10 hours of the whole mini-series but its well worth the wait. Unfortunately, a lot of us who didn't like the err...production ethics of the first 9 hours of so of the series would've given up by that time. It also shows the Americans in a real nasty light as an occupational force of bored combat bred soldiers wondering why they cannot just go home...

[ 10. December 2003, 08:54 AM: Message edited by: BratwurstDimSum ]

 

Very good point about the general. When my mother saw that movie she said "How can they depict such monsters like that? They're Nazis!" I just wanted to say "They were just following orders." My mother is originally from New York. Though she looks down on the secession of the Civil War, she looks up to Robert E. Lee. I think that is a prime example of this. Robert E. Lee only joined the Confederates because his hometown needed him. Same with the Nazis. Sorry if I'm trying to prove a point to those who already get it, just trying out some logic that I would have said.

 

Forgive me for being over indulgent but I have started a new thread just for that scene, this time I've added pictures...

http://www.ww2forums.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=18&t=000256

 

To be brutally honest, I have to admit that I hit my own forehead watching the scene, simoultaniously falling off the chair laughing my ass off.

The actor's (obviously German) monolouge is mentioning something pathetic like "we shared the same foxholes for x years..."

He said "Fuchshöhle" (or was it "Fuchsloch"? anyway, it's quite the same) for "foxhole" in German, which is the literally translation of "foxhole".

Well, let me tell ya: in German, a "Fuchshöhle / Fuchsloch" is what it says: a fox-kennel, and ONLY that, "nothing even similar to a dugout ("Schützenloch" or literally translated back into english a "riflemen's hole").

So not even a German Volkssturm boy with brain demages caused by two Thommygun bullets would call a riflemen's dugout a "Fuchsloch".

Result (at least to those who understand German): The General's speek comes across as being the blabbling of a COMPLETE IDIOT. Something like George C. Scott saying "Our pressure vessels [=tanks] broke though."

But maybe it's unfair: Maybe some producer cretins told him to "just do his fu***n job" and to repeat exactely what some script geniuses wrote down by using babelfish...so "Fuchsbau" instead of "Schützenloch"

Cheers,

 

Wot!………no, no ,no. Everyone knows that when the Germans weren’t saying, ‘Gott in himmel’ they were saying ‘donner unt blitzen’. Unless they were talking to the enemy when it was ‘swinehund’. OK, so a few achtung’s, schnell’s and raus’s’ got thrown in, but they ate only wurst and sauerkraut, drank only schnapps and all the officers looked like Anton Diffring!

No.9

 

Could it be possible that the German actor was not a WW2 buff and actually thought they were referred to as foxholes? Anyway, for those of us who don't speak German, that was a touching scene...

 

I think this has a large part to play in Spielberg's films, it is well to the fore in Schindlers List (for obvious reasons!) and I wondered about that sequence in SPR where one of the Rangers is waving his dogtags at the German PoWs and telling them that he's Jewish. Later on the same guy gets knifed in a struggle with an SS man - symbolic? Maybe, maybe not.

The major contention I have with Spielberg's direction (this applies to nearly every film he's done, with the exception of Jaws and 1941) is the excess of sentimentality that appears to be a trademark of his. A pity because the opening half hour of SPR is perhaps the most graphic, un-Hollywood representation of the D day landings yet seen on film.

The Band of Brothers series (of which Spielberg was one of the producers) I thought presented a more balanced picture and on the whole I 0refer it to SPR, but these are only my opinions and not meant to be representative.

 

Uh oh...we're bringing this back to life are we? Here's a question...how would YOU (anyone who's reading this) depict Germans in a concentration camp? As kind, gentle people that care about the health and safety of the Jewish (as well as some German) prisoners? I really don't think so...
Like I said before, people are looking too deep into this. It's a WW2 movie, most elaborate I've seen (2nd only to Band of Brothers), and I really don't think there's an anti-German perspective here. Maybe an anti-Nazi perspective...but still...