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Taiwan/Formosa or Philippines?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Riter, Jan 6, 2024.

  1. Riter

    Riter Well-Known Member

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    Nimitiz and King wanted US effort to concentrate on capturing Taiwan/Formosa. We know FDR ruled in favor of MacArthur's plan to liberate the Philippines.

    How stiff would Japanese resistance be in Taiwan/Formosa? The population was not Japanese but like Korea under Japanese rule since 1905. Having been there so long, I would expect there to be more fortifications.

    Philippines and the Filipinos did not like the Japanese who offered them nothing but brutality. They had numerous guerilla operations that became a Fifth Column that hampered Japanese troops, fought, raided and gathered intelligence for the Americans.
     
  2. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    You might want to look up the conference in Hawaii regarding this.
     
  3. Riter

    Riter Well-Known Member

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    OpanaPointer - I'm aware of the conference between Nimitz, MacArthur and FDR and that the decision was made there, but what about the difficulty of taking Taiwan? Would the people of Formosa have fought or suicided themselves like others?
     
  4. ColHessler

    ColHessler Member

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    Formosa was composed of Chinese with a Japanese garrison, so I don't see their people going all Banzai on us. Look up Operation Causeway.
     
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  5. Riter

    Riter Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Col. Hessler. I always thought Nimitz supported or advocated for Formosa/Taiwan.

    To me the decision to go into the Philippines was correct. Friendly native force that was resentful of the Japanese. I couldn't say the same of the Formosans/Taiwanese who were long aquainted with the Japanese.

    Do you know the extent of Japanese prepardeness there? I suspect the Formosans/Taiwanese would have been used mostly as laborers like the Koreans were. I don't even think we had any intelligence assets there. Interpreting photos can be tricky if not misinterpreted.
     
  6. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Taiwan was Chinese, so I doubt it.
     
  7. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Liberating the PI was US policy set by Douglas MacArthur without authority to do so. Most Americans didn't realize that. Made it a political problem for FDR.
     
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  8. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    The old regimes in China used to do an internal exile when someone annoyed them. The problem was advised he/she was being sent to Taiwan. Oh, and there are cannibals on that island. Enjoy your stay.
     
  9. Riter

    Riter Well-Known Member

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    John McManus' third book in his trilogy about the US Army in the Pacific, To The End of The Earth, somewhat responds to the question and I just finished the first chapter last night. There were Formosan soldiers in Japanese service. They were guarding the Los Banos PoW camp and were cut off by a raiding force whose intent was to liberate the PoWs. Their commander had PoWs whom were held hostage and negotiations ensued that allowed for them to leave but without their heavy weapons (rifles and pistols only) - sort of "honors of war" type thing ala 18th Century. Once they were free of their American escorts, they broke up in all directions and fled despite their captain trying to hold them together as a unit. If this was characteristic of the Formosans (not saying they were cowards but rather reluctant draftees who didn't revel in the notion of dying for the emperor), they had to be kept under tight control to keep them fighting.

    Philippines was the correct choice and Formosa/Taiwan would have been been more costly.

    Side issue: When the KMT/Nationalist Chinese were kicked off the mainland, they fled to Formosa/Taiwan. The KMT considered them traitors and when the Formosans/Taiwanese tried resisting, they were slaughtered by the KMT.

    Opana Pointer is correct in asserting that there were some cannibalistic tribes in Taiwan/Formosa. I doubt if they continued that practice after the Japanese took control in 1905. Japanese didn't play games.
     
  10. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    An anthropology Prof. at Purdue got all upset when I mentioned the cannibals. Never did provide evidence that they weren't any on the island.
     
  11. Riter

    Riter Well-Known Member

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    No shortage of cannibalism in the Twentieth Century either.

    Per Walter Craig's Enemy At the Gates, some Italian PoWs captured at Stalingrad practiced canniabalism. When Stalin imposed the holodomor, there was cannibalism in the Ukraine. During the Siege, Leningraders who were caught cannibalizing their fellow citizens were shot. There was cannibalism in China during the '30s. Read a book by a GI who worked in the Provost Marshal's Office in Berlin. He walked into a Berlin restaurant's meat locker and saw bodies. Cut off from supplies on their islands, the Japanese resorted to cannibalism. Modernlytoday some satanists also practice cannibalism.
     
  12. Carronade

    Carronade Ace

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    One aspect of going for Formosa is that our supply lines would be unusually vulnerable. Amphibious landings and the subsequent ground operations depended on an uninterrupted flow of supplies and reinforcements as well as the ability of unloaded transports, damaged ships, and the like to return to base. Historically there was little threat to traffic between the battle area and the bases from which operations were staged and supported. Although significant Japanese garrisons were bypassed in our island-hopping strategy, they lacked air or sea power to threaten our communications.

    Lines of communication to Formosa could be threatened from both north and south, for several hundred miles from the battle zone. Historically our carrier force largely demolished Japanese air power on both Formosa itself and the Philippines, but the bulk of the Japanese navy was still in the south. They might be so helpful as to hurl themselves into a "decisive battle" against our invasion force; a more effective strategy might be to make periodic strikes against our LOCs. From the north, the threat of land-based air staged through the Ryukyus and their small remaining carrier force; again, raids against supply convoys etc. would be more effective than a head-to-head confrontation.
     
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  13. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    On the griping hand the flight from Chinese bases for bombing runs would be shorter and over less, if any, IJA held territories.
     
  14. Carronade

    Carronade Ace

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    Formosa would require a substantial ground force, but it's slightly smaller than Luzon, the conquest of which involved ten Army divisions (the only such campaign in the Pacific war). The Philippines eventually involved sixteen divisions, since MacArthur insisted on liberating them in their entirety.

    Formosa would also be beyond the range of most, probably all, land-based aircraft. Land-based air from places like Halmahera was able to support Philippine operations.
     
  15. Carronade

    Carronade Ace

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    I'm reminded of the cannibal who arrived late for a dinner party, to be greeted by his host saying "Sorry, everybody's eaten."
     
  16. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    We bombed Japan from China.
     
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  17. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    Many Taiwanese served in the Japanese military, including units that fought in China. Taiwanese troops even participated in the atrocities against Chinese civilians at Nanjing (Nanking) and other places on the mainland. Of the Taiwanese who served in the Japanese military, more than 30,000 were killed in combat.
     
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  18. Carronade

    Carronade Ace

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    Good point; I was just looking at it from the point of view of advancing across the Pacific. What's the nautical equivalent of "tunnel vision"?

    Planes from China, including B-29s of the 20th Air Force, did bomb targets in Formosa and could support an invasion. They could also help suppress Japanese China-based air which could threaten the operation.
     
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  19. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Oriental Cross-channel Attack!
     
  20. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    Not something a country would forget quickly...
     

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