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Tali-Ihantala

Discussion in 'Winter and Continuation Wars' started by Artema, Mar 12, 2010.

  1. AirdefMike

    AirdefMike Member

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    Yup, the veterans mention that the artillery won the battle of Tali-Ihantala.
     
  2. Lotvonen

    Lotvonen Member

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    As to the definition of "destroyed armoured vehicle"... Can anyone tell how the Red Army calculated her losses? For example if a T-34 was hit by a Panzerfaust during an attack and the crew was killed, then the wreck would be abandoned in the battlefield. Would this tank considered as not lost if the Red Army could later recover the wreck ?
     
  3. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Just out of print in Finnish a book of the Karelian offensive 1944 by Ilja Moštšanski (born 1969) a Russian military historian:

    The Soviet Karelian front had 260,000 men, 7,500 pieces of artillery and 630 tanks,assault guns and armoured vehicles to start the offensive with.

    The Units that made the offensive towards Vyborg had 459 tanks and assault guns from the Leningrad Front troops. ( the figure does not include armoured vehicles ).

    Here´s the cover of the book ( too big to load here unfortunately ):

    http://www.helsinkikirjat.fi/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/kannas_kansi.jpg
     
  4. Karjala

    Karjala Don Quijote

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    After the collapse of the Soviet Union the Russian historical science was starting to show some signs of normality and of becoming normal science as it is internationally understood. However the findings from the (temporarily open) Russian archives and by the internatianal historians didn't please Putin and the very useful myth of the "noble" "Great Patriotic War". Of course in the west - and now in the liberated eastern European countries as well - these findings new to Russians have been well known already for decades.

    Therefore Putin's regime has labelled the normal, scientific history as "political" and made laws to stop unwanted truths to infilter and to keep the old Russian propaganda alive.

    Now almost all of Europe can study history openly and without any political agenda by the governments. Hopefully Russia could join the others soon!
     
  5. Karjala

    Karjala Don Quijote

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    The difference is, that in Finland we (including the governments) have never believed in false propaganda. It doesn't do the job - at least not with the Finns. Therefore the facts in Finnish books are as correct as possible. The conclusions can of course vary.

    On the other hand we know for fact, that Russian official documents are very untrustworthy. All levels lied to the others, which multiplied the incorrect information. Propaganda was overwhelming in all aspects of life.

    Even the most modern Russian history books are still very political, although less so than in the soviet times. Unfortunately the situation seems to be declining again.
     
  6. Karjala

    Karjala Don Quijote

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    Maybe it is difficult to understand two totally different cultures. For example Soviet pilots' claims of downed Finnish planes exceeded the entire fleet of the Finnish Air Force. On the other hand claims of the Finnish pilots were quite at the same level as Russian own loss reports state.
     
  7. Karjala

    Karjala Don Quijote

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    In the battle of Tali-Ihantala the total number of troops taking part was about 150.000 soviet and 50.000 Finnish soldiers. Not all were fighting at the same time - especially on the Russian side - but that was the total amount. Soviets had 5 Army Corps involved: 97th, 108th, 109th, 110th and 30th Guards AC - at least 15 divisions. Total losses were abt 22.000 soviet and 8.800 Finnish - including killed, wounded and MiA.
     
  8. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    The Red Army was stopped when their goal was to invade Finland. I was in 2004 in Tali-Ihantala inr the celebration of the battle.Stalin decided Berlin was more important. And decided to move the troops to the Eastern front. Stalin was even enough stupid to send trains full of vodka to the troops that had occupied Wyborg. What a mistake. The Finns had time to create new defensive lines.If you were Guderian you would have continued attack immediately. Not wait a week when your troops are sober enough.
     

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