The Abortion Dilemma

I totally agree, I loath organised religion for all it's hypocracy and prejadices

FNG

 

Abortion in case of:

Rape - yes
Abuse - yes
Clear threat to physical wellbeing of woman - yes
Clear threat to mental wellbeing of woman - yes but it needs to be really really clear
Ripped condom - no
Got pissed and forgot to use anything at all - no
Morning after pill didn't work -no

 

i never managed and never intented to either ,
and neither did my wife

what fun i would never had had if i did!!

 

Simply put.....to SCORE is human!!!!

 

Well, to me it just says more about the people who make those complaints than about the religion itself.
However, I have now successfully de-railed the topic, and need to drag it back on track.

So, Abortion.

What would have happened if Mrs Hawkins thought 'no, I don't want a disabled child, I'll abort little Stephen'?

We cannot tell what a person will do with their life, or how it will affect the world. Therefore we should not decide for them that we would rather not give them the chance.

There, a nice juicy offering to kick-start the debate!

 

i didnt think stephen hawkins was born disabled..but has suffered from a degenerative illness and was abled bodied when he was younger...correct me if wrong..thnks

 

you can't run the world on if's and buts. You just need to get on with it and take it as you find.

Maybe if Mr Hawkins wasn't born, someone else would have developed his therory and do his his new found wealth rather than buying bigger motors and a kick ass amp for the wheel chair ploughed the money into their pet project of cold fusion developing cheap limitless power for the world by 2004

Come on, how did the parents know that Mr Hawkins would be very very clever. The odds of a person developing into a prof of physics is probably less than becoming a murderer.

FNG

 

Isn't the church against mastrabation? , because all those sperm that are"you know" they are potential life and end up (not going into details) or does the church still think the stork drops off babies at the house.

 

The way I see it, if a woman doesn't get pregnant she doesn't need to have an abortion. Eveybody knows how children are made. Take precautions, take responsibility, or don't have sex!

Abortions shouldn't be used as a way for women and men to avoid responsibility for their own actions. In this case, that action would be making a child.

 

I agree, you don't want a baby , control your hormones you horny buggers !!!!!

 

Thanks for enlightening me. I know better now.

 

Haha, I remember making this thread when I was a hyperactive lad. I got interested again in the issue and I'm against abortion. Seems so unnecessary... It also makes me angry that pro-choice activists want the government to fund it, which is stupid because its no different than funding cosmetic surgeory, albeit, a lot more disturbing, well, not if you take into account Joan Rivers

 

You have to draw a line somewhere, of at which stage you are going to give humans 'rights'. If you're going to prefer the foetus's 'right to live' over a woman's right to abort, you are giving the foetus the legal status of a human being, even though it is completely unconscious... And then you are preferring that right over those of a conscious human woman... Her rights are subject to those of what is essentially an inanimate object.

Sure, the foetus may be alive, but there is no evidence to sugest that a it is conscious... Like a tree, or an insect, the cells do multiply, but a foetus can't think for itself and it cannot reason. Killing it is no more morally wrong than cutting down a tree...

I don't really see anti-abrotionists as any different from those animal activitists who seek to give animals the same rights that humans have. It is ridiculous because neither animals or foetus's have the capacity to exercise those rights. They don't think and they are not part of human society until they come into this world. Personally I think that the life of an unconscious foetus, or a tree or a dog, is less important than the life of an adult human woman...

 

prosecutors in the usa typically ask for the death penalty only in the cases of " special circumstances "..often crimes so awful and brutal that the general public doent even get to hear the details ..but jury does ...a seventeen year old who gleefully commits a torture sodomy rape murder or several is not a child and referring to such monsters as children is nonsense ..did anyone here think of themselves as helpless children when they were seventeen ? the age of consent in my parents home state of pa. is fourteen so the age of adulthood is a rather subjective thing ..i have mixed feelings about capitol punishment myself but please lets use the word child to describe actual children and not young male adult predators who laughingly commit the most horrible of crimes and often without the slightest bit of remorse ...

 

I think abortion should be illegal. Sure couples have the right to choose, but the children have rights as well!

 

I think smeghead covered that point quite well. If a child is in such a rudimentary state of development that it is not yet self-conscious, not yet physically independent from its mother (still almost a part of its mother's body), and definitely not yet capable of partaking in human society, why would we give it the same rights as someone who is?

The question of abortion comes down to whether or not you consider the mother's power of decision over her own child to involve the question of life or death. As long as the child itself is unborn and in fact not yet a child, I would say she may wield such power, for the simple reason that the child affects her body and her body only. No other part of human society yet has to deal with this potential new member, so it isn't anyone's business but the mother's.

Abortion definitely isn't "unnecessary", CSP, if the mother does not want, or is mentally, physically, or financially unable to raise a child. Many people would argue that the woman herself should exercise responsibility and make sure she does not get pregnant, but there's two things that can be said about that. Firstly, of course, there's the possibility of getting pregnant involuntarily and beyond your means to prevent (such as through rape). Secondly, there's the matter of consequence. If we consider pregnancy to be exclusively the responsibility of the mother, and if we say she shall not be granted an abortion because she simply should have been more responsible, then we're effectively reducing the child to a way of punishing the mother for her percieved irresponsibility. If a woman gets pregnant but she cannot support a child, it is easy to argue that she should have made sure she didn't get pregnant, but if we still allow the baby to be born then it will ultimately become the victim of its mother's irresponsibility - hardly a preferrable course of action.

Of course, the government should not have to pay for the irresponsibility of others (if that is the reason for unwanted pregnancy), but I do think abortion should be legal and available to everyone, especially women who cannot financially support children. This is for the sake of these unborn children and their mothers, who would otherwise have to mold their entire lives around the consequences of one crime inflicted upon them or accident they were involved in or mistake they made. If a child cannot be raised properly, it should not be born.

 

all good points roelsan ,on the other hand if there is no intervention the child will be born ..i guess if i were a woman i would say ,its my body and my call ...if i were a feotus ,i would say im a person ,my sex ,height eye ,hair color ..wether i like sports or video games , reading ,math ect ..all are coded now at day one ...then again , a recent nationwide drop in crime in the usa was attributted to legal abortion being passed in the mid sixties ....

 

Mid 70's . Roe vs Wade

 

sry , right csp ..i was thinking about row vs wade the 1966 lawsuite about a river crossing problem with a chicken ,grain and a fox...

 

I'd also like to add that there are no abortion regulations in Canada. Abortion is on demand. So, even fetuses with partially or fully developed nervous systems and brains can be aborted. They make up around 2-3 % of all abortions, but considering that around 1/5 pregnancies in canada end with abortion that is quite a lot.