The Allied Bomber Offensive

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 Type        Sorties    Tonnage    Avg. ton.   # lost   % loss/sortie     % loss/tonn

B-17       291,508    640,036      2.2         4,688        1.61                 0.73

B-24       226,775    452,508      2.0         3,626        1.60                 0.80

Mosquito   28,639     26,867     0.94           169        0.59                  0.63

Lancaster   148,403  608,612       4.1         3255        2.19                  0.53

Halifax     73,312    224,207       3.0         1734        2.37                  0.77 

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Per sortie day bombing was safer, but per tonnage the night bombing was safer. Pick your favorite of the two.

An unbearable loss ratio per sortie is considered to be somewhere 7.5-10%. Luftwaffe achieved this only a handfull of times.

Another source says 8th Air Force heavy bomber losses , as a percentage of effective sorties was 1942 5.6%, 1943 5.1%, 1944 2.1%, 1945 1.6%. For RAF Bomber command 1942, 3.3%, 1943 3.9%, 1944 1.5%, 1945 1%. The difference between these two lists are because they calculate a sortie a little different.

 

What is intresting here is the %age loss per tonnage for the Mosquito - now if we could have had a 4 engined equivalent with a halifax/Lancaster bombload (as in the Manchester in Tony's book )

 

The RAF did have a night fighter version of the ubiquitous Mosquito. In fact, the German Ju 88 and Me 110 crews were very much afraid of them as their aircraft were no match for the British plane (although the He 219 was).

 

I should have known better than to start putting up the numbers!

I really think you have to look at loss/sortie. I think Loss/bomb tonnage may skew things in favor of BC due to the larger bomb loads carried by their aircraft.

Really bad, witness Schwienfurt/Regensburg as the worst that could happen. Still the RAF experience at night could be very bad as well, witness Nuremburg. (Please excuse the spelling of the German cities).

 

I remember reading once, I believe it was in the book of Antony C. Sutton "Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler", that the US bombers were purposefully not turned on factories owned by American corporations, even if they were producing airplanes, tanks, chemical stategic products etc.

It is (almost) certainly a filthy lie, but has anybody heard about it from other sources?

 

Once newer versions of AI were available, the aircraft with the older versions were allowed over the French coast on Serrete missions.

 

Oh yes, once the Germans got decent radar'based ground-control, and radar-equipped nightfighters up & running...

You really cannot escort a bomber stream at night as effectively as you can a formation of bombers by day.

 

What about this selective American bombing, Ricky?
Maybe this was one of the reasons why Americans preferred to bomb in daytime? I am serious: I remember that the book gave some convincing evidence about it....

 

It may have been quite convincing but I doubt it was evidence. There are no indications I've ever seen that the USAAF ever avoided certain targets due to ownership.

 

The only way to find out would be to research every target ever hit - or planned as a secondary etc - and find out who owned them / invested in them.
And you would also need to find out every other industrial site not targetted by the Americans, and who owned them.

And then look at what was targetted & what ws not, and play 'spot the difference'.
ie: was something not targetted because it was too small to be worth it, or because it was in a city suburb, or too far into Germany, or not a significant part of Germanies war effort...etc.

Then look at what the Americans wanted to achieve by their bombing, and square that up to the non-targetted sites...

In short, there is a lot of research could go on here. Any volunteers?

 

YES SIR!

I have just received a copy of "WallSt. and the Rise of Hitler". I´ll try to find some evidence shortly. Just have to stab some 20 patients in the back first.

 

Can I have a go?

 

meaning what.....don´t disturb! I am stabbing just now!

 

british Air Marshall Harris was a cold blooded murderer

 

I don´t know whether the actual temperature of his blood has ever been measured, but he was certainly well qualified to sit in Nurnberg aside Hr. Goering. Just imagine their conversations! I would love to be a fly on the wall there.

 

I can just see them both complaining bitterly over the unwillingness of each other's populations the succumb to the pre-war theories about the bombing of urban areas...

 

You know, they were exceedingly intelligent gentlemen, both of them. What I am sure of is, that Goering might tell Harris about his impressions form the eastern front and ask him:

"how come that all the machinery we found in ALL Soviet arms factories had "MAde in USA" written on them? Some kind of joke or do Americans use the USSR as their tool, what do you think, Harris - honestly?" sort of question

 

Izaak Stern wrote:

Since you have the book why don't you provide some sources for this "theory" so we can evaluate them also?
This was in the days before multinational corporations (for the most part).
Are you suggesting that American companies were involved in German or Japanese war production? I would like to see some evidence to support that idea before bothering to comment on it.


Hubsu wrote:

From what publication is that chart taken Hubsu?

 

There is much more on this in the book, a little bit to start somewhere. There is much more on that (A.C. Sutton “Wall Street and The Rise of Hitler)

I hope you´ll be able to read these scsnned sides, somehow. They may not be too big.

 

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