The Pershing, IS-2 and Tiger 2

One thing I think we should all remember in any debate about technology.
Just because you are more advanced in some areas, does not mean that you are more advanced overall.

Examples.

Germany lead the way with 'guided' ballistic missiles, but Britian (or was it America?) produced the first proximity fuses for AA shells.

America produced the Superfortress, but Germany flew the first jet areoplane.

Britain pioneered the best ASW technologies of the entire war (including centimetric radar, ASDIC, etc etc) but Germay produced far better optics than Britain.

Different nations have different advances.

Germany produced tanks with bloody good armour, guns & optics, but America produced tanks that were extremely mechanically reliable.

 

I very much agree with you on this Ricky !

KBO

 

Wise man talking.

P.S. are there anyone who still believes in NS-Saucers? :lol:

P.S.2. What do you think the Soviets were good at, besides sending people in hordes against machine gun fire? I mean, technologically? Still the 3rd generation bolshevik talking through me.
I´d like to ask this question to all of you, guys. The Evil Empire could not have just reached Berlin in galoshes and with wood sticks as weapons. ( L/L and numbers was not all they had, I suppose).

 

Economic production. Building to requirements, nothing more, nothing less. This appears to have been the great strength of the Russian war machinery - no great technological breakthroughs in any field (what can you expect from an economic system that discourages innovation) but simply to churn out a whole lot of decent vehicles, guns and planes that did precisely what needed to be done and if destroyed wouldn't be a terrible loss.

 

Izaak over 30 million Russians died !

3.5 million Russians were either dead or captured already in early 42, and another 10 million Russian soldiers would suffer the same fate in the coming years after the battle for Stalingrad.

By contrast the German lost about 2.8 million soldiers on the Esatern front during the whole war.

Numbers and crude equipment was Russians strong side, and should not be underestimated !

KBO

 

hence the nickname for the russian army-the steam roller

 

Well construction of AVFs comes to my mind.
They made the tank that changed tank construction and lot´s of good light and heavey tanks, tank destroyers and assault guns.
They were masters of concealing the troop deployment before an offensive, surprising their enemies again and again. Their use of artillery was somewhat unconventional –Who puts a 152mm howitzer in a trench?- but very effective.

These are just some the the things the Soviets were good at.

 

Be “wise man talking” I meant Ricky, and I was serious.
By december, no less than 8 mln soldiers were dead, seriously wounded or POW, not 3,5 mln in early ´42. Yes, many died but humanitarian feelings were not Stalin´s strongest card. And the number can certainly not be a measure of what I have humbly asked for, KBO.

Besides, my view is very much like the rest of those who cared answer my question. On the construction of AVFs I agree the most with Markus (of course). They had really good designers, especially considering their limitations. Some of them worked in peculiar conditions. Tupolev was actually arrested and his team worked in a sort of jail.
Yakovlev once received a comission to design a fighter to certain specifications, given by Stalin. He asked about how much time he had (I think it was the future Yak-1). “Three months” answered Stalin. “But, Comrade Stalin! In America they need at least 2 years to design a fighter!”. Stalin: “Comrade Yakovlev, are you American, maybe?
Also, the art of improvising, not alike the Germans, when most of their weapons factories were overrun. Some places the AVFs were assembled under Sibirian sky, the factories not yet having been built.

 

I would say they were very good at designing & producing equipment that could function well in a wide range of environments & weather conditions, and using the bare minimum of strategic materials.

I could also include Japan by mentioning their advances in oxygen-powered torpedoes (the infamous 'long lance').

All nations had/have something they were/are better at than others.

 

Your very easely agitated Izaak !

 

POW's don't count as casualties ! And their were millions of Russian POW's !

3-4 million Russian soldiers were for sure dead by early 42.

 

I this my eyes or yours?
Besides, you are wrong. I would call it resentful. Yes, certain attitudes make me resentful. If one cares about some other people than oneself, it is only natural. If one doesn´t, what kind of person one is? I´m sure some people here understand this reaction.

 

pershing was alot better

 

Why?

Christian

 

In my opinion the King Tiger was the best heavy tank of WW2. It had a great gun, awesome armor, and could beat anything it came against.

 

Hello

My first message here...

Can anyone post a number of observations written by a Tiger-I commander about how to combat the Tiger-I? I think it came from a Jentz's book but I cannot find it. It stated the distances to engage, how the russians would avoid areas protected by Tiger-I battalions etc...

Regards.

 

I see alot of 'former memebers' listed , how does that happen?

The father of modern rocket propulsion is the American, Dr. Robert Hutchings Goddard.
"Robert Goddard was conducting theoretical and experimental research on rocket motors at Worcester, Mass., using a steel motor with a tapered nozzle, he achieved greatly improved thrust and efficiency. During W.W. I Goddard developed a number of designs of small military rockets to be launched from a lightweight hand launcher. By switching from black powder to double-base powder (40 percent nitroglycerin, 60 percent nitrocellulose), a far more potent propulsion charge was obtained. These rockets were proving successful under tests by the U.S. Army when the Armistice was signed; they became the forerunners of the bazooka of World War II." - reference Brittanica


Robert Goddard (1882-1945) was one of the three most prominent pioneers of rocketry and spaceflight theory. He earned his Ph.D. in physics at Clark University in 1911 and went on to become head of the Clark physics department and director of its physical laboratories. He began to work seriously on rocket development in 1909 and is credited with launching the world's first liquid-propellant rocket in 1926. On March 16, 1926, Goddard successfully tested the first liquid fuel rocket, at Auburn Massachusetts. He continued his rocket development work with the help of a few technical assistants throughout the remainder of his life. Although he developed and patented many of the technologies later used on large rockets and missiles--including film cooling, gyroscopically controlled vanes, and a variable-thrust rocket motor--only the last of these technologies contributed directly to the furtherance of rocketry in the United States. He was granted about 70 patents altogether. Goddard kept most of the technical details of his inventions a secret and thus missed the chance to have the full influence his real abilities promised. At the same time, he was not good at integrating his inventions into a workable system, so his own rockets failed to reach the high altitudes he sought. In memory of the brilliant scientist, NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md., was established on May 1, 1959.


yep they Germans read and saw his designes in 'Popular Mechanics'

Funny, they got into an American stick, the rocket and we did their stick, the nuclear physics





1865. Jules Verne published his novel, entitled FROM THE EARTH TO THE MOON.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1883. Tsiolkovsky's FREE SPACE was published. In this, Tsiolkovsky showed that a rocket would function in a vacuum due to Newton's Action-Reaction" laws of motion.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1895. Tsiolkovsky published a book on space exploration which was entitled DREAMS OF THE EARTH AND THE SKY.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1901. H.G. Wells published his book, THE FIRST MEN IN THE MOON, in which a substance with anti-gravity properties launched men to the moon.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1903. Tsiolkovsky produced a work entitled EXPLORING SPACE WITH DEVICES. Within, he discussed the applications of liquid propellants.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1909. Robert Goddard, in his study of fuels, determined that liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen would serve as an efficient source of propulsion, when properly combusted.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1911. Russian Gorochof published plans for a reaction airplane which operated on crude oil and compressed air for fuel.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1914. Goddard was granted two U.S. patents for rockets using solid fuel, liquid fuel, multiple propellant charges, and multi-stage designs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1918. November 6-7, Goddard fired several rocket devices for representatives of the U.S. Signal Corps, Air Corps, Army ordinance and other assorted guests, at the Aberdeen proving grounds.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1919. Goddard wrote, and then submitted A METHOD OF ATTAINING EXTREME ALTITUDES, to the Smithsonian Institution for publication.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1923. Herman Oberth published DIE RAKETE ZU DEN PLANETENRAUMEN (The Rocket into Interplanetary Space) in Germany, and cause much discussion about the technology of rocket propulsion.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1924. Tsiolkovsky conceived the idea of multi-stage rockets, and discussed them for the first time in COSMIC ROCKET TRAINS. A Central Committee for the Study of Rocket Propulsion was established in the Soviet Union, in April.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1925. THE ATTAINABILITY OF CELESTIAL BODIES, by Walter Hohmann, described the principles involved in interplanetary flight.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1926. March 16: Robert Goddard tested the world's first successful liquid-fueled rocket, in Auburn, Massachusetts. It attained a height of 41 feet in 2.5 seconds, and it came to rest 184 feet from the launch pad.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1927. Enthusiasts in Germany formed the Society for Space Travel (VfR). Hermann Oberth was among the first several members to join. Die Rakete, a rocket publication, began in Germany.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1928. The first of nine volumes of an encyclopedia on interplanetary travel was published by Professor Nikolai A. Rynin, in Russia. In April, the first manned, rocket-powered, automobile was tested by Fritz von Opel, Max Valier and others, in Berlin, Germany. In June, the first manned flight in a rocket-powered glider was achieved. Friedrich Stamer was the pilot, and flew about one mile. Launch was achieved by an elastic launch rope and a 44 pound thrust rocket, then a second rocket fired while airborne. Hermann Oberth began acting as consultant to Fritz Lang's FRAU IM MOND (Girl in the Moon) to build a rocket for premiere publicity. The prototype exploded on the launch pad.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1929. Hermann Oberth published his second book about space travel, and one chapter included the idea of an electric space ship. On July 17, Robert Goddard launched a small 11 ft. rocket which carried a small camera, barometer and thermometer which were recovered after the flight. In August, many small solid-propellant rockets were attached to Junkers-33 sea- plane, and were used to achieve the first recorded jet-assisted airplane take-off. The movie FRAU IM MOND was released. It created an increased interest in rocket technology in Germany.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1930. In April, The American Interplanetary Society was founded in New York City by David Lasser, G. Edward Pendray, and ten others for the purpose of promoting interest in space travel. It was later renamed the American Rocket Society. December 17th marked the establishment of a rocket program Kummersdorf. It was also decided that the Kummersdorf proving grounds would be equipped to develop military missiles. On December 30th, Robert Goddard fired an 11 foot liquid fueled rocket to a height of 2000 feet at a speed of 500 miles per hour. The launch took place near Roswell New Mexico.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

1931. In Austria, Friedrich Schmiedl fired the world's first mail carrying rocket. David Lasser's book, THE CONQUEST OF SPACE, was published in the United States. May 14: VfR successfully launched a liquid-fueled rocket to a height of 60 meters.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1932. Von Braun and his colleagues demonstrated a liquid-fueled rocket to the German Army. It crashed before the parachute opened, but Von Braun was soon employed to develop liquid fueled rockets for the Army. On April 19th, the first Goddard rocket with gyroscopically controlled vanes was fired. The vanes gave it automatically stabilized flight. In November, at Stockton N.J., the American Interplanetary Society tested a rocket design that they had adapted from VfR designs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1933. The Soviets launched a new rocket fueled by solid and liquid fuels, which reached a height of 400 meters. The launch took place near Moscow. At Stanten Island, New York, the American Interplanetary Society launched it's No. 2 rocket, and watched it attain 250 feet in altitude in 2 seconds.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1934. In December, Von Braun and his associates launched 2 A-2 rockets, both to heights of 1.5 miles.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1935. The Russians fired a liquid powered rocket that achieved a height of over eight miles. In March, a rocket of Robert Goddard's exceeded the speed of sound. In May, Goddard launched one of his gyro-controlled rockets to a height of 7500 feet, in New Mexico.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1936. Scientists from the California Institute of Technology began rocket testing near Pasadena, CA. This marked the beginning of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory. The Smithsonian Institution printed Robert Goddard's famous report, "Liquid Propellant Rocket Development," in March.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1937. Von Braun and his team relocated to a special, purpose-built rocket testing facility at Peenemunde on the Baltic Coast of Germany. Russia established rocket test centers in Leningrad, Moscow and Kazan. Goddard watched one of his rockets fly to higher than 9,000 feet, on March 27. This was the highest altitude attained by any of the Goddard Rockets.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1938. Robert Goddard began to develop high speed fuel pumps, in order to better outfit liquid fueled rockets.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1939. German scientists fired, and recovered, A-5 rockets with gyroscopic controls that attained seven miles altitude and eleven miles range.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1940. The Royal Air Force used rockets against the Luftwaffe planes in the Battle of Britain.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1941. In July, the first U.S. based launch of a rocket assisted airplane took place. Lt. Homer A. Boushey piloted the craft. The U.S. Navy began developing "Mousetrap," which was a ship-based 7.2 inch mortar-fired bomb.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1942. The U.S. Air Force launched it's first air-to-air and air-to-surface rockets. After a failed attempt in June, Germans managed to successfully launch an A-4 (V2) rocket, in October. It traveled 120 miles downrange from the launch pad.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1944. January 1st marked the beginning of long-range rocket development, by the California Institute of Technology. This testing resulted in the Private-A and Corporal rockets. In September, the first fully operational V2 rocket was launched against London, from Germany. Over a thousand V2's followed. Between the 1st and 16th of December, twenty four Private-A rockets were test fired at Camp Irwin, CA.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1945. Germany successfully launched the A-9, a winged prototype of the first Intercontinental Ballistic Missile, which was designed to reach North America. It reached almost 50 miles in altitude, and achieved a speed of 2,700 mph. The launch was executed on January 24th. In February, the Secretary of War approved the Army's plans to establish the White Sands Proving Grounds, for testing new rockets. On April 1st through 13th, seventeen rounds of Private-F rockets were fired at Hueco Ranch, Texas. On May 5th, Peenemunde was captured by the Red army, but the facilities there were mostly destroyed by the personnel. Von Braun was captured by the U.S. and relocated to the White Sands proving ground in New Mexico. He was made part of "Operation Paperclip." May 8th marked the end of the war in Europe. At the time of the German collapse, more than 20,000 V-1's and V-2's had been fired. Components of approximately 100 V-2 rockets arrived at the White Sands Testing Grounds, in August.
On August 10, Robert Goddard died due to cancer. He died at the University of Maryland Hospital in Baltimore. In October, the U.S. Army established it's first Guided Missile Battalion, with the Army Guard Forces. The Secretary Of War approved plans to bring top German rocket engineers to the U.S., in order to further knowledge and technology. Fifty five German scientists arrived at Fort Bliss and White Sands Proving Grounds, in December.

 

Hi Stonewall,

nice info - I just wonder why it is in a topic about tanks!

Now to add my nugget - aerial rockets were used in WW1 (by the British & French) against observation balloons.



http://www.fun-online.sk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1805

 

sounds good, I spent the time reading this thread, I decided to close out the side isssue....

but i like your picture