The rank of Sergeant Major

Split from "Humor, the best medicine"

Sergeant-Major is an interesting rank.

I remember seeing somewhere that they are directly responsible to the unit CO, not to the various lower officers, and that being 'promoted' to lieutenant is actually an effective demotion for them.

(is this true?)

 

It certainly is in terms of pay at any rate.

My knowledge of British Army ranks and posts is a little rusty but here goes a brief description.

There are two types of Sergeant Major.

A Company or Squadron Sergeant Major (CSM or SSM) is directly responsible to the Company or Squadron Commander, as such he is outside the individual Troop/Platoon's command structures and an order from the CSM/SSM carries the weight of the Company or Squadron Commander. He is still technically junior to a Troop/Platoon Lieutenant or Captain, but he doesn't take orders from them.

A Regimental Sergeant Major (RSM) is directly responsible to the Battalion Commander, as such he is outside of both the Company/Squadron and and the Troop/Platoon command structure. An order from the RSM carries the weight of the Battalion Commander. Again, he is still technically junior to the Troop/Platoon and Company/Squadron commanders, but he doesn't take orders from them.

That is just my interpretation, if anyone knows better (Over to you Merlin ) please feel free to interject!

 

so, if i get this right, then it are the sergeant majors who keep the army up and running and not the Lieutenants or Captains

 

Let me know if you are aware of any LTs of CAPTs trying to give order to a SGTMAJ!!! I'll buy a ticket to that show!!!

SSGT, (ret)
USMC

Respect the Regimental Commander,
Fear the Regimental Sergeant Major

It also applies at the battalion and company level, just insert Company First Sergeant!

 

do you mean that the SGTMAJ takes orders from nobody?

 

That doesn't seem very efficient. To have a person virtually outside the normal Army hierarchy who can give orders on a level way above his rank, and parallel to the person who does hold this rank, seems to me like a recipe for trouble.

 

Oh, technically the SGTMAJ is outranked by lieutenants and captains. However, since your average SGTMAJ has been in uniform longer than most LTs and CAPTs have been alive, it's almost dogma that the SGTMAJ will take orders from his commander, and those above him. He'll probably take suggestions from other officers! :lol:

 

my grandfather was a regimental sgt major throught out the ww2 in the british army.. the only rank above him from the ranks is a warrant officer.

my understanding is that he was subordinate to all ranks from WO upwards.

However the vast majority of sgt majors have vast knowledge and expereince often much better than Lts and Cpts and would be used in an advisory role to those officers often making the decision in copoperation with them but the orders being given and signed by the officers.

 

Sergeant Major, whether CSM/SSM or RSM is a post rather than a rank.

A CSM/SSM is usually a Warrant Officer Class 2 (WO2)

An RSM is usually a Warrant Officer Class 1 (WO1)

In the British Army the Other Ranks structure is (Junior to Senior):

Private/equivilent (Sapper, Trooper, etc)
Lance Corporal/equivilent (i.e. Lance Bombardier)
Corporal/equivilent (i.e. Bombardier or Lance Sergeant*)
Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
Warrant Officer Class 2
Warrant Officer Class 1

* The rank of Lance Sergeant supposedly is unique to one of the Guards units (I forget which one), the story I was told was that it dates back to when Victoria was on the throne and one day became appalled when she realised that she was being guarded by mere Corporals. As the army couldn't promote all the Corporals to Sergeants they simply re-ranked them as Lance Sergeants!

 

In the US military Sergeant Major is a rank rather than a post (there are specific posting however such as Sergeant Major of the Army...Regimental Sergeant Major etc.. )
As a non-commissioned officer it is true that technically he is outranked by the lowest commissioned officer (2nd Lieutenant) however typically his power and authority flows from the Commanding Officer of the unit he is attached to and as a matter of military custom no junior officer is likely to begin ordering him around and telling him how to do his job as the senior enlisted man of the unit.
Wisely, the CO wants to have a kind of liason with the enlisted ranks who is responsible for ensuring that things get done. Military customs and courtesies are respected and followed by the Sergeant Major, he salutes all commissioned officers and addresses them as "sir". Just as surely the junior officers (with few exceptions) know(or quickly learn) the pecking order in the unit. If they violate it they won't be taken to task by the Sgt. Major but by the Commanding Officer who will make it plain to them..don't you f**k with my Seargent Major..he answers to me!

 

i looked at the ranks of the british army on google because i wasnt sure.. i was surprised to see no rank for regimental sgt major or colour sgt either..all the others were as i thought.

i was under the impression that a rsm wasnt the same rank as a warrant officer..which it seems it is?

i know my grandfather was a rsm and was referred to by his collegues and the commanding officer of the welsh guards at his funeral..and also my next door neighbour is a rsm in the royal marines.. so which is it?

 

http://history.farmersboys.com/RSM's/rsm's1.htm

Try Googling for Regimental Sergeant Major. I did and the first link (Above) it provided states: "The REGIMENTAL SERGEANT MAJOR is the senior Warrant officer in the Battalion,"

Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regimental_Sergeant_Major ) was even more useful, as I hadn't realised the Household Cavalry were different in this respect:

Regimental Sergeant Major (RSM) is an appointment held by Warrant Officers Class 1 in the British Army and Royal Marines. The RSM is the senior warrant officer in a regiment or battalion, and is primarily responsible for maintaining standards and discipline. In the Household Cavalry he is the Regimental Corporal Major (RCM).

The RSM is never addressed as "Sergeant Major". He is addressed as "Mr (surname)" by officers, and as "Sir" or "Mr (surname), Sir" by his inferiors. Only his commanding officer (the lieutenant colonel commanding his battalion or regiment) has the privilege of addressing him as "RSM".

The same appointment exists in the Australian Army, New Zealand Army and Singapore Armed Forces. In the Canadian Armed Forces, RSMs hold the rank of Chief Warrant Officer.

The equivalent rank in the US Army would be a Command Sergeant Major.

To answer your question, whether RM or Army RSM is a post or appointment, it doesn't appear on the Rank Structure charts because there is no no rank of Sergeant Major (Regimental or otherwise) in the British Army, the RSM's rank is that of a Warrant Officer Class 1.

 

would it also be called master seargent?

 

I don't think so, I think a Master Sergeant is more comparable to a British Army Staff Sergeant or Company/Squadron Sergeant Major.

 

Here, the rank of sergeant major is equivelant to either , a warrant officer , a master warrant officer , a chief warrant officer.

 

Well in the Singapore Armed Forces we call them Encik regardless of our ranks.(Pronounced as "EN-CEK") It's a Malay term but the race don't matter. They are the biggest on the parade square and reserves the right to punish any officer on the Square,albeit politely. Once out of the square,the officers still fear them....Yes we fear the Enciks more than the officers

 

are you Britsh and if so the brits got there colonies back after world war 2?

 

No Britain was in the process of dismantling the Empire before WWII, that process continued afterwards.

 

I'm appalled at your question TD! Singapore today is one of the most prosperous and advanced countries in this world!

And i guess that tells you that i am not British ain't it?

And yes,those "englanders" :lol: got back Singapore after the war. But in 1959 granted us self government.(so Simon,your wrong ) We merged with Malaysia then but because of the "a Malay Malaysia" policy by the federal government instead of the "a Malaysian malaysia" advocated by the Singapore government,we were forced to take our leave from the federation and became independent in 1965,August 9th. Since then,we have been on tense terms with Malaysia but ever since their prime minister changed hands,relations got more cordial but as a Singaporean "brainwashed" by my government,i am ever ready to be conscripted after my compulsory 2 years of military service in order to fight our invaders....hahah

Any questions?

 

No I was not wrong, I stated that the process of dismantling the Empire began pre-war and continued post-war. I don't think Singapore was a "Colony" then.