Top Ace of the Skies, Axis Powers

Could we have a little more publisher information? "Olympic Press 1968" is a little lame for a reference.

Might help if we dig out the wording for her citation for the Knights Cross. It might be handy to figure out exactly what she was receiving her decoration for.

When you make claims like this it's handy to stand by with a reference or two. Keeps the collective blowing of raspberries to a minimum, eh old boy?.....

 

He mentioned the Iron Cross 1st Class, not the Knights Cross
Anyway the list of female Recipient doesn't have her name in the 1st class category...

Source

That's one very valid point !

 

Let me reiterate myself: 1). I have a book translated from German written by a female pilot who, claims in WWII to have had 168 confirmed shoot-downs in a 9 month period; 2). The book, was translated into English in 1968; 3). The book purports to be non-fiction; 4). She states that she received the Iron Cross First Class by Hitler himself shortly before his demise; 5). She stated that she was in the Luftflotte Nos. 2 in 1944-45 (by the way the Luftflotte Nos. 2, was in Italy during this time see Wikipedia); 6). There is a small grainy photograph of a woman (I think) that after work today I shall scan it into the computer and attach it to this thread; 7). I purchased the book from an Estate Sale in Olympia, WA. 8). The only identifying marks [that identifies the publisher] is Olympic Press 1968; 9). The only reason for stating the 'fact' listed within the pages of this book was to show the history of her final statement, e.g., "War is an art that all who participates therein shall suffer, given the immensity of the troubled times, one must ask herself {my note "or himself} not shall I defend my Country, but rather I shall lay my life down so that others may live in peace." This sentence (out of the entire book) means more to those who have defended their Country than the words within the entire book. Regardless, if the book turns out to be the ramblings of an elderly person looking to make amends, regardless if there is misinformation contained within the pages of the book itself; the only reason for mentioning the history itself, was to convey those words period. I have spend hours, and hours, reading this book, and the most emotion ever felt from reading a memoir was the reading of those words. -Birdy

 

Volga Boatman, "blowing raspberries," hardly. Please avail yourself to my latest reply and the reason for the history as published verbatim (word-for-word). Chucknuk, old boy, rather than bl**ding h*ll -Birdy

 

Ok....just for the sceptics....

Could we please have some excerpts from this book? It won't take you long to type a few paragraphs.

Humour an old sceptic like myself.....

I'm perfectly willing to have my opinion changed, but as it stands at the moment there is a distinct aroma of equine excretia wafting up from this thread at a rapid rate of knots....

Are you sure this wasn't written as a feminist daylight fantasy? The date of publication is about right for it!

 

In fact, this thread might well be in line, and 1st in line at that, for this months "Golden Vuvuzela Award" for the most distinguished noise we have heard since WW2 ended....

No offense Mr Mckee. I'm sure you have read this book and probably enjoyed it.

"Braveheart" was enjoyable entertainment and terrible history all in the same package as well. Good literature does not always make for historical accuracy.

Until proven otherwise, this is worthy of a BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.....or at least a farty noise....

 

As i am working on two of my books at present for the German LW day and night fighters, let me be brief

the story is pure fiction, one and in conclusion there were NO German LW women pilots that were aces, understand NOT ONE, German female pilots were allowed to use LW a/c as test pieces and transferred planes from field to field unlike their counterpart with the Soviets who fought bravely in the front line units.

 

I shalt return with answers to these questions when I am released from my current employment or around 1900 hrs. PST [7:00 PM] -Birdy

 

Ot but ...

But much like the US used it's women pilots. I'm not even sure the US had any female test pilots although they did have a considerable number involved in ferrying planes.

 

Bird

before you make any response to the forum members on your thread please first do a little research on the awarding of LW decorations during 1944-45, and her supposed theater of oeprations. If what you claim is true about this woman and it is NOT :

she would of received the EK 2 at 10 kills and the EK 1 for 15-20 kills, she then could receive and depending in 44 just when as the total numbers were downplayed significantly due to raise moral amongst the LW pilots an folk back home after 25 -35 kills if confirmed she would of been able to receive the Deutsche Kreuz in Gold and even possibly 35-50 kills the Ritterkreuz. I speak from experience over the last 45 years as well as interviews with dozens of former day and night fighter pilots and crews serving in the Luftwaffe during WW 2.

In the 1960's there were several LW pilots that gave their first person accounts albeit some pretty shotty work without revealing their theater of operations no squadron of fighter group serving under or years in service, quotes taken from other well known LW aces and personalities proliferated within the scope of their "first person book". and as discovered not quite a bit later that these so-called pilots were indeed not pilots at all but ground crewmen wanteing to take the limelight, so real were their stories at first appeared later to even find they were the leading wart for an ace pilot in their squadron.

as from a fact in earlier postings on your thread whom received the EK 2 and EK 1,
would you not think right off the bat had this woman scored even 25 kills in any theater she would of been the glamor girl of the whole Third Reich ? can you not see what type of propaganda tool she would of been, more popular than the Nazi Rudel even. I can see right now even if she would of been whom the book claims after 50 kills she would of been pulled out of LW combat experience on the front lines and put into a higher ranking Offiziers career teaching further woman flyers to defend the Reich and making public engagements to recruit more women and not just for the Helferin membership either ........

sorry but what you have on your hands is just another small book used for a door jam.

just a few details I would hope you would think about .......

v/r

 

Here is the image scanned in from the Book in question, it took me seven tries to get it this sharp. Please meet Ms. von Haart. I have located the Olympic Press who published the translated version of the book in 1968; this publishing Company was absorbed by McGrew-Hill in 1971. And finally, I have been scanning a few pages into the computer for purview, however, as of this moment and the size of the printed text, it is a slow process, only because the text comes out extremely blurry. -Birdy

 

And?

So lets hear the quotes from her book then.

This is just a photo after all.

Units served in...types of aircraft flown...dates of victories...types of aircraft shot down and locations....was she ever shot down? etc etc...

This is the type of proof we need.

I'm an open minded person so lets hear it then.....

Oh...Please include date she was awarded the Iron Cross of any description.

We are still in fairyland until all this very related info is supplied...

 

As nice a picture as this person makes, I think it's a hoax.

The hairstyle is too modern. It looks like one of those studio 'aged' photos to me.

Anyhow, in the absence of further proof....

 

Grunter von Haart could have been an actress, working with Luftflotten 2 as a morale booster.....

Maybe she 'boosted the morale' of no less than 168 lucky Luftwaffe pilots...."All for the Fuhrer"....

If your scanner isn't working, why can't you type out a few excerpts from the text?

I think this is like one of those "Mystery Shopper" people, turning up on this website to check out just how much mis-information we can handle, or not as the case may be.

Until shown to be incorrect, my opinion still stands of this....

I am officially designating this thread to be a

CONSIGNMENT OF GERIATRIC SHOE MANUFACTURERS

or to put it in plain English....A LOAD OF OLD COBBLERS!

 

That photo is not one of a woman taken in the early part of the 20th century, her hair and make up are all wrong for the period.

I'll not waste any more time with this thread...its a hoax.

 

looks like Birdy has flown the coop....

Bye bye Birdy!!!!

 

Birdy has not "flown the coop" I am here, I can only log into this website when I am released from my current employment (US District Court), as I have a contractual and moral responsibility to complete my employment to the best of my ability. I sometimes am released from my employment at around 5:30 pm, other times later [much later] 9:30, 10:45 pm. As for the photograph, it is the photograph that was taken from the book. Now Volga, if you think that this thread is a such a hoax, I will be more than happy to drop ship the book to you or anybody else, anywhere on this blooming planet!! Since I now realize that this threat will not go anywhere, which is fine; as the only reason for quoting the book, was to quote: "War is an art that all who participate therein shall suffer, given the immensity of the troubled times, one must ask herself {or himself} not shall I defend my Country, but rather I shall lay my life down so that others may live in peace."" No other reason needs to be stated.Should you disagree with this sentence, speak up. All the responses that I've heard thus far, is it's a hoax, a line of excrement, etc. Not one person has ever taken the time to read and respond to the sentence that was made. Since this is so, if any person shall desire I will personally send this book with my disdain, to him (or her) anywhere they shall desire, via over-night shipping!! -Birdy

 

I'm not here to discuss philosophy.

I'm more interested in you substantiating your amazingly inaccurate claims.

This website is dedicated to the exchange of information concerning various aspects of WW2. It exists to help those that are looking to enhance their knowledge of the subject. People will be drawn to the different threads in the pursuit of this. It is in the best interests of the site to make this information as accurate as we can.

Until you can come up with something a little more concrete than an un-captioned photo of dubious worth, I'm going to continue to suppose that your assertions regarding this individual are complete and utter tripe.

I think we will all be waiting a long time for you to come up with the goods. A very long time....

 

I'd heard of Russian female pilots. Also women flying factory fresh planes to drop off points. Can't recall German women aces. To read about their accounts would be a treat...Yes please.