Turkey shoots down Russian jet

he keeps showing how ''anti'' American he is....he is pro-criminal......I haven't seen too many real leaders....just politicians who are afraid
from the links and posts here, it seems like the different groups are working for the $, not Syria, not Assad, etc

 

Turkey is the largest problem.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3335819/Double-dealing-tyrant-s-sabotaging-West-s-battle-crush-ISIS-Turkey-s-Erdogan-doing-cripple-forces-actually-fighting-ISIS-writes-MICHAEL-BURLEIGH.html

 

2 journalists of the Turkish newspaper Cumhuriyet have been arrested because they published pictures of Turkish trucks of which they said they transported weapons and ammunition for ISIS. The charge is espionnage .

If the pictures did not prove that the trucks transported weapons and ammunition for ISIS,there was no reason to arrest them .

 

Perhaps, perhaps not.

One could read from your post that the 'two journalist's' did the transporting ("they said they transported weapons and Ammunition for ISIS"), and if so, their arrest would be justified.

I also remember a video of a Russian made SAM launcher, sans one missile, leaving eastern Ukraine for Russia within hours of abrupt end to a passenger jet flight. Mr. Putin did not seem to think this constituted "proof" that Russia or Russian backed rebels played any part in that shortened flight.

First we see neither the photo's or published report. We have no idea when the photo's were taken, where they were taken, who drove the trucks, who accepted the trucks, what was in the trucks, where the trucks originated from or if the intended recipients actually received the contents of the trucks.

Alternate possibilities are that these were intended for ethnic Kurd's in Syria, or for some other rebel group. That the transfer was low level graft or as a ransom payment (another source of Daesh income/support). It might even been part of a 'Fast and Furious' type sting aimed at seeing exactly where these arms might go for intell purposes.

Your post offers no context to properly judge

 

Belasar, you state this as if you're in a vacuum. Use your google-fu and you'll find sources for all of this. It isn't a secret, it's splashed all over the news. He's imprisoned at least one AP correspondent and many Turkish reporters. Various western intelligence agencies have exposed the same facts. Turkey is moving ISIS oil to the far east on tankers owned by Erdogan. That same 100 mile stretch of border is the conduit for recruits and arms into ISIS territory.

Here: https://www.rt.com/news/323603-isis-oil-smuggling-turkey/

And here: https://www.rt.com/business/323391-isis-oil-business-turkey-russia/

And here: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/11/25/wesley_clark_isis_serving_interests_of_turkey_and_saudi_arabia_someones_buying_the_oil_isis_is_selling.html

 

Google-Fu 9-11 was an inside job, a false flag operation by the US government and the Israelis, you'll get hundreds and hundreds of hits, but that does not mean its true. If you Google-Fu's ISIS oil and Erdogon the bulk of hits you'll get are repostings of articles from web sites that specialize in conspiracy theories and contain little concrete factual information.

It would be nice and neat if the whole thing could be explained by the Erdogan conspiracy theory put forth, but the real situation is much more complicated.
Lets start with Putin may be pointing the finger at Erdogan to provide political cover for Assad and some shady Russian characters.

From the Business Insider, note this article is from November 16th and predates the shoot down, so is not in response to that incident:

http://www.businessinsider.com/isis-selling-oil-to-biggest-enemy-2015-11

Then the Wall Street Journal reports this action by the US Treasury Department on November 25th:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-says-syria-is-buying-oil-from-islamic-state-1448471418

continued.....

 

The story of business Insider is no proof .

 

No : the journalists said that the trucks transported weapons and ammunition for ISIS ,and the reaction of Erdogan was to arrest them .This indicates that the claims of the journalists are true . Besides,it is a public secret that Erdogan supports ISIS .

 

Then there's this very good Newsweek article going into the complexities of ISIS' financing.

http://www.newsweek.com/2014/11/14/how-does-isis-fund-its-reign-terror-282607.html

So its quite complex.

ISIS received a large cash infusion when it captured the Iraqi bank in Mosul and a large number of independent banks in captured territories, estimates run from $500 million to 1 billon dollars. They sell oil to various middlemen using the smuggling network that came into being during the years Iraq was under UN sanctions and it exports to the Assad Regime, to Turkish and Kurdish smugglers on the Turkish-Syrian border, through Kurds in northern Iraq and even into Jordan. These transactions are through established smugglers and criminal elements with most of the oil/refined fuel being used within the region, with very little making it to the international market. Turkey has actually stepped up its seizure of smuggled oil in the border regions. I have not seen any reputable western intelligence sources that implicate Ergdogan, the Turkish government, the Kurdish leadership, or Jordanian Government in this illicit trade.
ISIS also uses many tried and true organized crime techniques to raise money, kidnappings for ransom, extortion, robbery, selling stolen antiquities, and many others.

 

OK here's a US Treasury link that supports the article:

https://www.treasury.gov/press-center/press-releases/Pages/jl0287.aspx

 

You just quoted one from Newsweek.

 

No he did not. Nowhere in the Newsweek article point fingers at specific individuals or governments.

It would be like claiming that the President of the United States or the Prime Minister of Canada is involved in the illicit drug trade because illegal drugs are smuggled into those countries.

 

Do you really think those convoys going through the 100 mile corridor into Turkey aren't known to the Turkish government?

 

Complexity wrapped in enigma.

Nicolaou would be the conduit from/through Turkish Cyprus. http://www.primax.com.cy/

How this Syrian-Russian-Belizian-Turkish Cypriot clandestine, terror funding oil trade formed is
yet another enigma. We may as well toss the Greeks and Armenians in too. And with the Greeks completely broke - why not (black market crude could be helpful)?

We must remain aware that another half of the World implicates the Good Old West in these funding activities (royal scams). Truth may lie anywhere in between and wont be declassified for 10? years. Or never depending on who gets the black eye. Who knows and they piss me off all the time with their accusations so I'm just a messenger.
Surely Brits at the Akrotiri communications centers have a good idea what's going on here based on the many eavesdropping assets on the base.

Limassol (/ˈlɪməsɒl/; Greek: Λεμεσός [lemeˈsos]; Turkish: Limasol or Leymosun; Armenian: Լիմասոլ) is a city on the southern coast of Cyprus and capital of theeponymous district.Cyprus:

The Port of Limassol is one of the busiest ports in the Mediterranean transit trade and the largest port in Cyprus. It has also become one of the most important tourism, trade, and service-providing centres in the area. Limassol is renowned for its extensive cultural traditions, and is home to the Cyprus University of Technology. A wide spectrum of activities and a number of museums and archaeological sites are available to the interested visitor. Consequently, Limassol attracts a wide range of tourists mostly during an extended summer season to be accommodated in a wide range of hotels and apartments. A large marina lies near the old town, 500 meters from the Limassol medieval castle.

Some neighbourhoods, mostly to the east of the city were predominantly Greek, to the west predominantly Turkish with an evenly mixed area around the castle. The church played an important role in the education of Greeks during the years 1754–1821. During those years new schools were set up in all the towns. Greek intellectuals used to teach Greek history, Turkish and French.

When the US sanctions squeeze these players who will offer them the lines of credit to float their companies into the future? Beijing, through Iran: and Moscow as long as their funds hold out from their emergency fund? Any other ideas?

 

Hello Belasar,

Concerning the journalists
http://sputniknews.com/europe/20151128/1030904762/turkey-media-panic.html

Below is the connection between Turkish govt. and Islamists.
http://sunnyxoxa.blogspot.ru/2015/11/bloody-turks-bilal-erdogan-isis.html?m=1

Last but not least is good aerial footage of an oil tanker convoy before and after Russia's visit. What's incredible is this is the same exact footage that was shown on NBC when giving credit to US destroying oil tankers.
https://www.rt.com/news/322614-russian-warplanes-isis-oil-trucks/

As for the video of 1 missile on the Buk system before it allegedly went back to Russia....
The investigation is over and what has been established is that a Buk missile was in fact responsible for downing the airliner. It was also established that the Buk missile responsible the tragedy was an older version which Russia no longer manufactures or uses. These missiles are only present with the Ukrainian military. What the investigation left out was from where the missile was fired and by whom. I think it is safe to assume that the investigators are familiar with the video you speak off along with the a strong possibility of other videos and clues examined that the general public has no access to yet failed to place blame on a culprit. Clearly the video you speak off was lacking sufficient evidence to place blame.

I think it would disingenuous to point the finger at Russia even after the investigating body had failed to do so after so much time and hard work.

 

My point about the Buk launcher was not to take a cheap shot at Russia or even Putin, though I am not a fan of the man or his actions, was to point out that with the right caption any photo can be used to tell almost any story.

 

Too many quotes so I'll try combining a few.

Indeed like the rather classic strawman above.
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or not. I'll go with the or not.

If Russia didn't have a rather agressive foreign policy then the US wouldn't be persueing what you are calling "anit Russian" activities. Russia and Putin brought that on themselves.
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At his point calling it "incorrect" is no more valid than calling it "correct". Indeed it may turn on just how you define "targeting". The numbers I've seen would certainly suggest that civilians are not the primary targets of most Russian attacks on the other hand some of the attacks do seem to be pretty clearly aimed at civilian targets and others unconcerned with collateral damage.
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Returning Assad to power is not progress
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At least it's worlds better than Russian media.

Bzzzt .... Wrong answer. The Turkish shoot down of a plane violating Turkish space is a defencive action. Especially since warnings were issued.

The fact that those pilots were shooting at the "helpless" moderates and their homes a few minutes before shouldn't be ignored however.

At least one of the answers seams to be that since Daesh was using civlian drivers it violated the RoE of the time. These rules have apparently been amended.

It could easily be a mix depending on exactly when you are talking about things and what the question is. The aproval for instance could have come (with certain provisions) when the situation started to develop or even ahead of time. When the aircraft took off it would have been uncertain whether it was Russian or Syrian. At some point they would have suspected it was Russian but not been sure and later on it would have been clear who owned the plane. The bombing the ethnic Turks certainly didn't help matters no matter what the case.

Not from what I've heard. Indeed a fair amount seams to be going to domestic users.
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Over the last few months/years Russian official sources have shown themselves to be completely lacking in credibility.

The situation was quite a bit different though. In the case of the Turkish F4 there were no official warnings or mention of previoius incursions nor warnings at the time or had Turkey fired on Syria.

The first part is correct it was established to be a Buk missile. Glad to see that you finally are admitting that after claiming that the fighter theory was gaining steam even after it was throughly discredited and indeed was rediculous from the beginning. However it's not at all clear that it was indeed an older model or that said model was no longer in Russian service. Indeed there is photographic evidence to the contrary from what I've read.

The evidence was pretty clear that it was indeed a missle under either Russian or seperatist control. The official investigators couldn't determine which so they didn't state any firm conclusions in that regard. Again there is very strong evidence that the missile was not launced from territory under control of the Ukrainian government. Some of that evidence has been posted or linked on this site and no one has come any where near discrediting it although attempts have been made to hand wave it away.

 

Sending a war plane, especially an armed one over someone elses territory is an act of war as well. Doing so after repeated warnings is asking for trouble.

The warnings likely started when the planes approached Turkish space. They were probably being warned to alter their flight path so as not to enter Turkish space.

Very well put.

 

Two Belgian physicists figured that everyone is lying about the facts.
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/belgian-physicists-calculate-that-everyone-is-lying-about-the-downed-russian-jet

 

Putin is getting a far better press in the UK that many of the Western Leaders. The attempts to portray the Russians as the 'bad guys ' here are not working. Turkey has come in for some hammering in the papers with charges they secretly support ISIS in the comment pages. .