USA won World War Two and saved England ?

The third Reich was defeated first by the British in the Battle for Britain and then by the Soviets in the Battle for Moscow. The USA were dragged into the war (by Hitler) when the Third Reich has already lost the war. It is true that the Nazis have postponed the end of the war until 1945 but, essentially they lost the war at the end of 1941.

And yes, the US supplied Great Britain under usurious payment conditions.

 

Can you provide any additonal info on the American Ford trucks? I'd be interested to read. I had through the only trucks Ford (USA) produced during WWII were jeeps and some specialized heavy trucks. There were French, German and Russian produced versions, I know, and I think British and definately Canadian.

 

I would argue that the phrase above is correct. Of course I would also argue that you could insert the name of just about any alllied country in the above and be correct. Not sure how keen the Welsh, Scotts, or for that matter were about saving England but the UK was clearly high on the agenda.

I on the other hand tend to get irritated when people suggest the above. Did the Ukrainians really play a lesser role than the Russians for instance. Certainly one can say the the Soviets played a very big part in defeating the Germans but it's not clear that any one power could have done it on their own.

Actually it was felt well before that. The emergency shipment of artillery, small arms, and munitoins in June of 1940 was pretty significant.

You can say it but it's a bit misleading. One could also say for instance it was the Poles refusing to give into German demands or the British standing alone for over a year. or any of a number of other such points. All of them important but none of the "the story".

 

That's like saying the USSR was defeated after the battles of the summer of 1941.

Sources please.

 

Some sources would be welcome.

 

Indeed from what I've read Patton was not a fan at all of the SS. So I'd also like to see some sources on this.

 

So many good ideas in this post. I have not studied them all.

I would say we are allies and the U.S. helped reluctantly at first. The British have no need to thank Hitler for declaring war on America. We all fought for the continuation of a world relatively free of murderous despots and we won. It took the U.S. awhile but we helped finish it when Germany was close to finished (but still extremely dangerous). In the Pacific it would have taken much longer without all that our forces could bring to bear.

We are all good allies and thank God for that. Always will be.

Post 141 from Tamino strikes a chord with me. I too believe the war was essentially (the key word here) lost - at Stalingrad and at El Alamein but perhaps it was lost at Auschwitz and Bergen - Belsen. I know a great deal of work would have done to make a better case for my subjective opinion, merely placing it here now to weigh in on the debate. A blend of many of the comments made in these posts would be closest to the truth imho.

 

Number of US made jeeps and trucks delivered to Soviet Union was almost 400.000 by the end of May 1945

 

Right but I didn't think there were any Fords among them, except jeeps. Do you know what type of Fords they were?

 

Sorry while I meant Russians I meant both Russian and Ukranian , Baltic and Caucaus nationals who elected to remained loyal to Soviet Union. Considerable number of them fought for other side too like Ukranian SS Volunteer Division or Russian Liberation Army too.

 

Any large scale war material brought to Britain from US purchased and paid either in cash with dollar currency or by credit (except smaller scale charity works ) until April 1941. Cash and Carry Act did not permit otherwise. Actually all emergency purchases from US by British Purchase Commision in June 1940 witnessed hardest horse bargaining ever. US Armed Forces was not equipped at all and Britain at war barely hanging out (France was about to surrender and British Army lost its weapons and equipment at Dunkirk ) wished to buy extra surplus US weapons , equipment and other materiels stocked with a series of transactions and deliveries. Most of them leftovers from Great War like Springfield rifles , Browning Machine guns and old artillery pieces. US War Department did best to stall and stop this transactions until 1940 winter. Their reasoning was UK was also about to fall and surrender and every piece of weapon and equipment they sent over there would be captured by Germans and used against them while US military was still peacetime force (100.000 men in total no conscription or mobilization at all ) and barely equipped. Not only Britain paid in cash they also shared all their military scientific secrets including nuclear research , cavity magneton technology to develop airborne / centimetric radar devices (cavity magnetron technology created MIT Radiation Lab in 1940 ) , Whittle jet propulsion engine prototype , gyroscopes etc with Tizard Mission in August 1940. British did not seek any patents or rights for these inventions. They were so desperate for US cash and goodwill...

 

What would have happened if the US had not entered the European war?

There would have been no Normandy invasion because the British and Commonwealth nations would not have had the manpower or logistics to succeed in such an endeavor. Even if the invasion had occurred, let's say 1945 instead of 1944, the smaller forces would have remained bottled up on the coast. I would also point out that the Germans would have been relatively stronger without US strategic bombing, so in a better position to oppose any such landing.

So, we're left with the Soviets. Could the Soviets have beaten Germany on their own? Yes, I think they could have. It would have taken longer, but I think they would have eventually crushed the Reich. What then? Without a Yalta deal which hinged on an Anglo/American invasion, the Soviets would have rolled right through western Europe. We would have had a Soviet Europe instead of a German Europe - hardly an improvement.

 

Perhaps but hardly relevant. Then there's that load of artilery and small arms that was rapidly surplussed and sold to a US private compalny so it could legally be sold to Britain. All that happend in under a month as I recall. Around 1000 artillery pieces with ammo as well as a lot of small arms. As for left over from the "Great War" the M2 50 cal machine gun is a WWI vintage mg that is still in service likewise the Springfields were essentially on a par with the British Envield of the time nor were the 75mm guns really surplus or all that out of date. It is true that the US military wanted to hang on to them as they were short on weapons at the time as well.

 

"Patton on Communism and the Khazar Jews: General Patton's Warning." http://rense.com/general85/pats.htm

These are taken from his diary and personal letters. I am in no way saying I agree with some of his thinking, stereotypes, or a peace treaty with the Nazis, just pointing out that he wanted to take out the Communists right away and saw that threat. There is one more source that I read that I will try to find again.

 

Lets turn that...What would have happened if the British had made a seperate peace in 1940.
There would have been no Normandy invasion. Because the USA would have had no logistic base island to stage such a build up or invasion. No British beaches or troops available for use.

The Germans would have been in a much better position vis a vis no strategic bombing unhindered from land force attack in the strategic island base.

So we are left with the Soviets.

Britain could not win the war after 1940..But Britain would not have been defeated in 1940 after withdrawal from France...So a seperate peace...its sounding much better to my ears with every post I see here.

Britain does not require lend lease in 1940 as we don't spend our assets in the first place requiring weapons from USA...Your economy can go figure.

 

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=151257

There are links and more information from this link as well.

 

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=117&t=172323

In this link there is a German article translated to English about Patton wanting to re-arm some divisions of the Waffen-SS.

 

I see nothing in there that says anything about leaving the SS armed.
This link by the way doesn't make it sound like he was a big fan of the SS.
http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/patton.htm

 

That is entirely correct urqh.I will salute you tomorrow, as the last today's "salute" went to KodiakB.

We should not forget that without the British, the entire continental Europe would have spoken either German or Russian today. It was Churchil and Britain who fought and orchestrated the defeat of the Nazi Germany. It was Britain who weakened the Wehrmacht and more importantly the Luftwaffe. That made defense of Russia much easier. After the end of the battle for Britain it became apparent that Nazis cannot invade Britain. Their only hope were Dönitz and defeat of Russia. Donitz was defeated at "The Battle at Bletchley Park". When the Wehrmacht stalled in front of Moscow it was obvious that Nazis could not defeat Russia too. Declaration of war on the USA was the last gamble that finally doomed the Reich. In December 1941 the war was lost.

Many authors agree on this. In Global Research of February 2013, Dr. Jacques R. Pauwels wrote:

The tide of the war in the east turned gradually, but it did not do so imperceptibly. Already in August 1941, as the German successes failed to bring about a Soviet capitulation and the Wehrmacht’s advance slowed down considerably, astute observers started to doubt that a German victory, not only in the Soviet Union but in the war in general, still belonged to the realm of possibilities. The well-informed Vatican, for example, initially very enthusiastic about Hitler’s “crusade” against the Soviet homeland of “godless” Bolshevism and confident that the Soviets would collapse immediately, started to express grave concerns about the situation in the east in late summer 1941; by mid-October, it was to come to the conclusion that Germany would lose the war. Likewise in mid-October, the Swiss secret services reported that “the Germans can no longer win the war”; that conclusion was based on information gathered in Sweden from statements by visiting German officers. By late November, a defeatism of sorts had started to infect the higher ranks of the Wehrmacht and of the Nazi Party. Even as they were urging their troops forward towards Moscow, some generals opined that it would be preferable to make peace overtures and wind down the war without achieving the great victory that had seemed so certain at the start of Operation Barbarossa. And shortly before the end of November, Armament Minister Fritz Todt asked Hitler to find a diplomatic way out of the war, since purely militarily as well as industrially it was as good as lost.

When the Red Army launched its devastating counteroffensive on December 5, Hitler himself realized that he would lose the war. But of course he was not prepared to let the German public know that. The nasty tidings from the front near Moscow were presented to the public as a temporary setback, blamed on the supposedly unexpectedly early arrival of winter and/or on the incompetence or cowardice of certain commanders. (It was only a good year later, after the catastrophic defeat in the Battle of Stalingrad during the winter of 1942-1943, that the German public, and the entire world, would realize that Germany was doomed; this is why even today many historians believe that the tide turned in Stalingrad .) Even so, it proved impossible to keep the catastrophic implications of the debacle in front of Moscow a total secret. For example, on December 19, 1941, the German Consul in Basel reported to his superiors in Berlin that the (openly pro-Nazi) head of a mission of the Swiss Red Cross, sent to the front in the Soviet Union to assist only the wounded on the German side, which of course contravened Red Cross rules, had returned to Switzerland with the news, most surprising to the Consul, that “he no longer believed that Germany could win the war.”