Was Cavalry still useful in WWII ?

I was not aware that they had two separate symbols. Perhaps motorized means to have nothing but soft-skinned vehicles, while a mechanized division would include AFVs?

 

I may have been a little vague but there's nothing like an image to show the difference. Note that the "mechanized" symbol is actually the symbol for "armour" and that for "infantry" combined; indeed, mechanized units are supposedly entirely armoured.

 

Mechanized units were not fully armored, depending on your definition. At a tactical level the mechanized symbol denotes a unit (German Panzer Grenadier; US Armored Infantry, I'm not sure if the Brits or Soviets had a special term) that possesed sufficient half or fully tracked vehicles to carry the unit's infantry component into battle. The remainder of the unit's equipment and personnal would be moved in other motor vehicles which might or might not have been tracked and/or armored. Motorized units were those which had sufficient organic (part of the unit) motor (usually wheeled, usually trucks) transport to move the entire unit, equipment and personnal.
British infantry divisions were fully motorized, US infantry divsions were semi-mortorized, they didn't possess enough trucks to move all the infantry at one time, although GHQ truck companies could be assigned to motorize the division. The infantry in a US armored division was fully mechanized there were enough half-tracks in the division to move them all at once.
Most WWII half-tracks were open topped and only very lightly armored. Their real value was in being tracked and thus able to follow the tanks off road.

 

post subject

Yesterdays post contained the obituary of Lt-Col Charles Robert Douglas Gray who died in October 2004 at the age of 94.
Lt-Col Gray served in the Indian Army in 1932, commisioned into
"Skinners Horse (1st. Bengal Lancers).
The following article from the obituary will be of interest to the "cavalry" Buffs amongst you.
"His regiment was a member of "Gazelle Force", a small, mixed unit, which in January 1941 was advancing into Eritrea, heading for Keren,
when it met spirited Italian resistance in the Keru Gorge (a mile long, between 1,200ft-high granite walls). Here Gray witnessed a charge of 60
Italian cavalry led by an Italian officer on a white horse.
It was repelled by a combination of artillery and revolver fire; the charge lasted 30 minutes and ended when 12 of the attackers, including their leader had been killed and 16 wounded. Gazelle force had six wounded.
Skinner's Horse was astonished and impressed by this gallant charge, which was totally unexpected; the British army had no idea that the Italians had any cavalry! (in this area?)
Although this was not the last horsed cavalry charge made by either the British or Italians, it was the last occasion on which the British Army had to fight one off."

 

The irony of this story is that the British unit under attack is in fact an old Lancer unit, in other words one that was already modernized and had done away with its horses...

Thanks Merlin!

 

A fascinating (and ironic) story indeed.

 

I dont know if any one has said this but there is a little article o different cavalry units of WW2 at http://avalanchepress.com/panzerCavalry.php
It is really about the Cavalry units used in the game but it is interesting any way.

 

One of the "Life-Time" books on World War Two, shows a picture of Italian cavalry charging saber in hand against Russian troops-reportedly they took about 1000 prisonners and even captured some tanks..don't have any more details , In the battle for the right bank of the Dnieper(Nov. 6 1943-March 1944) cavalry was used by the Soviets on at least one ocassion:
On 17 February, Two German cliumns of about 14,000 men each marched towards Lysiaanka, where two ravines met. The spearheads were formed byt he SS men of the Wallonia Brigade and the Viking division. About 0600 hrs Soviet tanks and cavalry appeared ad rushed straight into the thick of the columns.

"What happened then is hard to describe. the Germans run in all directions and foir the next four hours our tanks raced up and down the plains crushingg them by th hundred. Our cavalry, cometing with the tanks chased them through the ravines where it was hard for tanks to pursue them. Most of the time the tanks were not using their guns lest they hit their own cavalry. Hundreds and hundreds of cavalry were hacking the Frtizes as one one had been massacred by cavalry before. There was no time to take prisonners. It was a kind of carnage that nothing could stop till it was all over. In a small area 20,000 Germans were killed.."

ref: Alexander Werth, ", Russia at War" , op. cit,.pp779-781..

 

Russian Cavalry in combat during the summer of 1941

 

Russian cavalry during the counteroffensive of 10 Nov. 1942 (above) and in 1943

 

In Northern Finland reindeers very, very useful and used by both sides. They were used in patrolling.

 

Me as well. Pretty useless.

 

Reindeer?!

I didn't know these creatures were domesticable.

 

Well, of course they are, Roel. After all, Santa Claus has used them for years! :lol:

 

They had sleigh on their back and the soldiers were sitting in the sleigh.

 

Most people tend to forget that most of the German Army was horse-drawn, despite the image of a mechanized force. Only the British and Americans were fully mechanised. So, horses were still essntial to most forces during the war.

Although tanks and armoured carriers are modern and fast, their technical deployment was still limited. In the vast forests and marshes, which covered big parts of Russia (for example: Pripjat marshes) they were useless, as well in the mountanous areas of Italy. In those area's soldiers depended heavily on horsedrawn transport.

Cavalry is useless against fixed positions, because its vunrebility to concetrated firepower. But in the pursuit of fleeing troops it is an excellent weapon, because they are fast, don't make not much noise and don't require supply.

 

They may be useful in pursuit in some terrains inaccesible to motor vehicles, but if just a single MG squad of the routing enemy decides to stop and turn around they can wipe out an entire cavalry unit. Surely they can still be useful in some roles but my point is, the situations in which there roles appear are so few and far between that cavalry overall can be considered obsolete by WW2.

The German army was indeed largely horse-drawn, but if they were given an alternative they would take it. It was not a chosen mode of transportation, it was a necessary one since the Germans lacked the trucks and fuel needed to motorize its whole army.

 

Indeed! and for that matter, most of the Russian army depended upon horses for towing artillery and wagons. There are some well know photos of Russian artillery pieces drawn by horses streamoing into Germany in 1945... L agree with your other comments on cavalry-although in certain mountainous regions of the world, it could still be used for recce. missions..

 

it was, poor horses they didnt have a change ingenst pzkw 5
:bang:

the polish armys used them

 

But they didn't actually charge tanks. This is a myth, it is probably mentioned somewhere in this thread or else try Here.