Was Hitler right to attack the USSR in 1941?

Soviet trade with Germany was increasing in 1941 not decreasing.
Indeed in January 1941 they had just signed an improved commercial agreement.

 

Ok what are they goint to fuel them with, or rather how are they going to get the fuel to North Africa? Only 1 in 4 of their cargo ships made it across the Med. More tanks don't equate into more power in this case. Just more stationary pill-boxes.

 

They may have "signed" one, but they were not keeping up with the original deal in repayment. That couldn't have gone on much longer. The Nazis had only paid for half of the first 300 million RMs worth of goods, and only 20 million RMs on the next 65 million delivered. The Soviet couldn't and wouldn't continue "feeding" the Nazis gratis, they weren't a "Lend-Lease" type organization. Hitler also couldn't ignore his capatalist backers in the industries, and they were not very willing to continue to sent anything east to the Soviet. The Nazis also had an absymal track record as per keeping "agreements".

7. Russia’s Economic Aid to Hitler

The economic side of the alliance was no small part of Russia’s aid to the Nazi conquests. This side of the pact was often explained away by the Stalinists as "simply a business proposition," or with the claim that Germany never did in fact get much from it, or, more modestly, that at any rate Russia got more than Germany. All three of these claims are thoroughly refuted by the documents.

The notion that economic agreements could be "simply a business proposition" under the circumstances of power relations in the midst of war was always an ignorant and naive fantasy where it was not a deliberate hoax; the whole story of the negotiations leading up to the pact, as unfolded in the documents, revolves around the axiomatic assumption by both parties that any economic agreement depended upon political agreement and that the latter must also involve the former. Schnurre, economic expert of the German Foreign Office, only summed up his actual experience in his note for his own chiefs:

Despite all these difficulties, during the long negotiations [for the commercial agreement of February 11, 1940] the desire of the Soviet Government to help Germany and to consolidate firmly the political understanding in economic matters too, became more and more evident. [134]

During the very first economic negotiations that followed the pact, Schnurre noted in a memorandum that "these negotiations will be a test of whether and how far Stalin is prepared to draw practical conclusions from the new political course." And in this same memorandum, headed "Outline for My Conversations in Moscow," the Nazi official continues:
The raw materials deliveries requested by us can only be carried out, in view of the unsatisfactory supply situation of Russia, at the expense of their own Russian consumption. [120]

The raw materials that went to Hitler to keep him satisfied with the alliance came out of the bellies of the Russian people.
We do not have the space to cite the detailed figures given for the huge quantities of raw materials which flowed into the Nazi war machine from Russia. "It was possible so to arrange these raw material commitments of the Russians," notes Schnurre, "that our wishes were largely met." [84]

He adds that it was a question, in particular, "of lumber, cotton, feedgrain, oil cake, phosphate, platinum, raw furs, petroleum, and other goods which for us have a more or less gold value." Suffice it to say that on September 28, 1940, he summed up the balance sheet as follows for the benefit of Ribbentrop:

The supplies from the Russians have heretofore been a very substantial prop to the German war economy. Since the new commercial treaties went into effect, Russia has supplied over 300 million Reichsmarks worth of raw materials, roughly 100 million Reichsmarks of which was grain. Russia has thus far received compensation only in the amount of about 150 million Reichsmarks. The striking disproportion between German and Russian deliveries is evident from the fact that in August, as against 65 million Reichsmarks of Russian deliveries, ... there were only 20 million Reichsmarks of German deliveries. [201]

In Schnurre’s very last balance sheet (May 15; 1941, little more than a month before Hitler attacked his generous partner) he not only says that "The status of Soviet raw material deliveries still presents a favorable picture," but adds that "I am under the impression that we could make economic demands on Moscow which would even go beyond the scope of the treaty of January10, 1941, demands designed to secure German food and raw material requirements beyond the extent now contracted for. The quantities of raw materials now contracted for are being delivered punctually by the Russians, despite the heavy burden this imposes on them, which ... is a notable performance ..." [340-1]

The reason for the "striking disproportion" was the fact that "the Soviet deliveries, which are to be made within 18 months, will be compensated by German deliveries in turn within 27 months. The most difficult point of the correspondence of September 28, 1939, namely, that the Soviet raw material deliveries are to be compensated by German industrial deliveries over a longer period [emphasis in original], is thereby settled in accordance with our wishes." [131-132] The result was that, in his last report a month before the break-up, Schnurre shows Russia left holding the bag: "the non-fulfillment of German commitments will only make itself felt after August 1941, since until then Russia is obligated to make deliveries in advance." [340] (emphasis mine)

It is very interesting to note at this point that, while the Russian rulers were systematically depriving their people of food in order to feed the Nazi juggernaut, German capitalists were straining at the leash against the drain of industrial goods required by the deal. In the same report a month before the attack, we read that "German industry ... is eager to withdraw from its engagements with Russia and in some cases already refuses to dispatch to Moscow the personnel needed for the execution of the contracts." [341] These diplomatic documents do not provide any further information about this capitalist pressure on Hitler, but it suggests an important counterbalance to a purely political and diplomatic explanation of why Hitler decided to break. (emphasis mine)

... But the raw-material supply from Russia itself was not the only aid rendered by the alliance.[Schnurre] In addition, there are other important benefits ... the Soviet Union had granted us the right of transit to and from Rumania, Iran and Afghanistan and the countries of the Far East, which is particularly important ... The freight rates of the Trans-Siberian Railroad were reduced by 50 percent for soy beans ... Furthermore, the Soviet Union declared her willingness to act as buyer of metals and raw materials in third countries ... Stalin himself has repeatedly promised generous help in this respect ... The Agreement means a wide open door to the East for us ... the effects of the English blockade will be decisively weakened by the incoming raw materials. [132-4, emphasis in original] ... Our sole economic connection with Iran, Afghanistan, Manchukuo, Japan and, beyond that, with South America, is the route across Russia, which is being used to an increasing extent ... [201]
　
See:

Ricky Saunders: Inside the Stalin-Hitler Deal (February 1948)

 

obviously, the best fortress in the world is going to fall in less than a month... to the Spanish... who were still recovering from a civil war...

 

So 2 extra Panzer divisions will be sent and orders given not to advance - ok, well thats two extra divisions that are subject to constant shortages of supply due to the inability of the Italians and Germans to secure a proper supply line, and as for the order to advance well Rommel did that anyway so all that changes there is that Rommel does exactly the same as he did anyway.

Anyway whilst Hitler is playing Hearts of Iron in the Med, the Japanese hit Pearl Harbor and Germany still declares war on the US. The US will still develop the bomb and its Bye Bye Berlin, war over.

 

I voted a definate NO.

Totalitarianism was riding high in early 1941. The economic benefits of a neutral partnership with the Soviets were far more benificial to the Hitlerian war effort than attempting to wipe the Soviets from the map altogether. "Barbarossa" disobeyed Lincoln's assertions during the diplomatic crisis of 1862 to fight "One war at a time, Mr Seward." Look how much "Uncle Joe" trusted his like minded buddy, Adolf. They could have ruled Europe between them for many a year with their combined strengths sticking to their own 'spheres of influence'. Thank sweet Christ Adolf was a rabid anti-communist and a gambler who wished to be young enough to see "Pax Germanica" in his own lifetime.

Thank The Lord for the courage, strength and endurance of the Soviet people. Stuff their leaders, the Soviet people took the Nazi Tiger by the tail and swung it around, kicking and struggling, until the heart of the beast resembled that of a domestic cat, purring for mercy.

Thanks to ALL Allied and Soviet vets.

 

I would hardly say losing 500,000 soldiers taking Berlin is a example of the Nazis purring for mercy. A very poor choice of words, IMO.

 

The Red Army did not lose 500,000 men takin Berlin.

 

I believe it was around 80,000. The Germans lost close to 500,000

 

The Germans did not loose 500000 men in the Battle of Berlin

 

The Russians lost 80,000 men killed and 275,000 wounded or missing in the lead up to the battle and in the battle itself. Two thousand Russian tanks were destroyed. 150,000 Germans were killed during the battle. Sorry I had a tough morning.

 

Oh boy, figures, figures, figures

Well I hope no one is going to nail me down but to my knowledge:

Defending Berlin outside towards the Soviet push towards Berlin about 50-70,000 Germans were killed and the wounded and surrendering soldiers accounted to about 150-200,000

Defending Berlin itsself, about 35-40,000 soldiers died. Most of them were Volkssturm. Most of the Wehrmacht soldiers actually managed to get out of Berlin - the vast majority of prisoners (about 50,000) were Volkssturm - more or less civilians.

Besides some SS and Wehrmacht hardcore units the "heroic" defense of Berlin was placed upon the shoulders of Hitler-youth and Vokssturm.

Regards
Kruska

 

The question was "was Hitler right to attack the USSR in 1941",not"was Hitler's attack justified".
We are talking on 'right' from a military point of view . I thought thiswas obvious .

 

Spanish and the Germans.

 

The Nazis slow payments and deliveries were done on purpose as they had already decided to invade the USSR.
The article you posted seems to contradict what you say above as the Soviets were very generous.

 

With vastly superior aircover available a lot more will make it across.
A mass of supplies can also now come by air.

 

Why would such an order be given?
Supply will be vastly improved with greater numbers of aircraft and air transports available.

The Americans wouldnt risk getting a bomb to Berlin without air superiority.

 

You can't supply an armoured division with air transports .

 

The Luftwaffe tried that a couple of times with those Gigant cargo planes, they were all shot down in spectacular fashion. Too slow to get away, and they didn't have any way to protect themselves, and they were HUGE targets!