What if........Hitler never invaded the Soviet Union?

Facts were that the Russian winter was even mightier. Hitler should have read the ordeal of Napoleon's army who despite capturing Moscow had to retreat because of the winter.

It might be more relevant to consider the German army experience of WWI, in which Russia was totally defeated over the course of 3-4 years, each of which had a winter. Hitler himself may have experienced the relatively balmy conditions of winters in France, but the German army leaders of WWII had been junior officers in WWI; many had also participated in subsequent fighting in the Baltic states. Nothing about Russian weather, terrain, rasputitsa, wide-guage railroads, etc. was a surprise.

 

That is a direct quote from Hitler when he met with the Finish Field Marshall von Manstein (I believe), when he was speaking to the man on the train in Finland. He didn't know the conversation was being recorded by the Finns. When the recording devices and listeners were discovered, the Nazis demanded that the recordings be handed over to them and/or destroyed. There was one copy which evaded their attempts.

 

At Hitlers downfall he also said that " had i known the amount of tanks Russia had, i would of thought twice about invading".

This is in Panzer Leader and is placed sometime in 1941; as Guderian puts it, Hitler said that he would never have invaded if he had believed the figures Guderian provided (in Achtung Panzer?) for Russian tank production.

 

Good thought , the 1939-1940 was a very cold one and the first war winter for the Wehrmacht. The Germans obviously gained some experience in clothing, cammo and winter warfare at least to some extend.

 

Thanks, skipper. I've always been puzzled/amused by the idea that Germans were like invading Hawaiians, stunned to 'discover' phenonema like snow, cold, or mud.....

 

False Hitler had tried negotiating with russia and it was after a meeting with molotov where Hitler came to the conclusion that russia needed to be invaded. Hitler tried to talk to molotov about russia attacking the middle east and they would divide a dis membered biritsh empire between them. instead molotov declined and insisted the the nazi-soviet pact stay as is and he requested access to the baltic sea (an area of great sensitivity to the germans). Thus the decision to invade russia was a result of a breakdown in negotiations due more or less to the fact that neither the germans or the russians could come to terms with each other. The whole ostfront is a war of 2 nations that literally hated each other dating back a long time.

 

Jager,

I think its best I be the first to respond to this before you get swarmed by other rogues here. This is nothing more than fantasy and wishful thinking covered by smoke screens. The division of the British Empire between Germany and Russia isnt even worth mentioning and requesting access of the Baltic Sea hardly constitutes reason for war. Not to mention against the very nation which was sending you all the resources needed which no one else was willing or able to provide. The invasion of Russia was not Russia's fault, the sooner you realize this the better off you will be.

On June 22rd 1941, Molotov met with the German Envoy Schulenburg who had already requested him in order to explain the unraveling events. His news was delivered: The threat posed by the growing number of Soviert forces on the border had compelled the German government "to take immediate military countermeasures." Molotov protested that, in fact there was no build-up of Soviert troops at the border and the only military activity consisted of routine maneuvers. The quick German victories which followed, IMO proved Molotovs protest as correct no build up ever occurred.

"The whole ostfront is a war of 2 nations that literally hated each other dating back a long time."

Not sure what the above means either. Dating back a long time? How long? 20 years? Because after WW1 the relations between the two nations was great and remained as such right up until Hitler came to power.

 

Not blaming russia. blaming it on a breakdown of negotiations. similar to what happened between japan and the us but a little different as well. The reason I stated above is from the book world war II written by about 5 historians from the Emperial Museum. Ill get it and quote exactly from it later tonight for you. maybe there is something i missed but i remember it saying that fuhrer directive 21 was a result of a bad meeting with molotov where hitler was done negotiating with communists. something of the sort. and this happened in 1940 when the planning to invade the soviet union had began. not 1941.

 

oh almost forgot. and no the germans and russians have had territorial disputes long before german unification. so many years.