What if Spain had joined the Axis?

Spanish shipping would be neutral for these two to three months.

 

Two options.

1. Hitler sends a Corps into Spain in June 1940 and captures Gibraltar.

2. Hitler meets Franco on October 23rd 1940 and tell him German will be attacking Gibraltar on January 10th 1941.

Franco will not be keen on the idea (he was much keener in June 1940 however) but he has little option but to play along if threat is implied by Hitler.

We could explore both options separately to avoid confusion.

 

This simply doesn't work. There isn't enough time for the negotiations or to get the German Corp back into decent enough shape to move all the way from France to Gibralter.

That time line seems possible and given the failure of the BoB and the canceling go Sea Lion might be something that would actually occer.

Of course he has options. Quite a few of them actually. The formost would be to play for time. An appeal for aid would certainly fit in as well. Since he's not at war for instance he could appeal to the US to help maintain his neutrality.

Not working on both at the same time in the same thread is a good idea. I don't see no.1 as feasable though.

 

Lets not forget that Franco did in fact help Hitler but only with the Soviet Union. The Blue Legion fought in Leningrad

 

Of course it was possible that's why Goring, Jodl and Guderian among others advocated Hitler should do it.
They have just invaded France with well over a hundred divisions to suppose you cant get a Corps together from that lot is ridiculous.

He played for time in actual history.
If Hitler gives him an ultimatum his only choice other than to go along with it would be to fight Hitler.

Agree I shall start another thread that deals with each one specifically.

 

This is only trolling:everything has already been discussed,and,the importance of Gibraltar has been debunked

 

And if Hitler forced him do you think that all Spanish would follow suit? Unlikely. More likely Germany may occupy Spain and Gibraltar however that does not secure the Canary Islands, More likely the British or even the Yanks occupy them as they did Iceland before they where even at war with Germany.

In the end the Germans have more territory, requiring more forces to man and manage while dealing with another lot of underground fighters, Would become more of a strain on them then any use.

 

Did they? Let's see your sources.

And by the end of that effort what was the availability rate of their motor vehicles? And how long was it going to take them to get them back on line? Or you could just point out what Corp you think was ready and available at the time.

Or not. If he has time and gets support perhaps Hitler backs down? If not there's certainly no guarantee that the Germans will be able to penetrate the Spanish frontier if the Spanish forces are backed by allies.

 

What by you?
It was one of the most strategically important places on the planet.

 

So you think Franco would fight the Germans and the USA would invade the Canary Islands?

 

This looks interesting.

Amazon.com: OPERATION FELIX: HITLER'S KEY TO VICTORY: Martin Nuna, Alfonso Escuadra: Movies & TV

During the Second World War, the British Colony of Gibraltar became a crucial weapon for the allies. Famous in legend as one of the mythical Columns of Hercules, the Rock's strategic position made it a "key" to the control of the Mediterranean and a vital staging post for the war effort.

Under Hitler's personal supervision and, in conjunction with Spanish Dictator General Franco,a plan was drawn up to take the Rock. The Plan named "Operation Felix" was never put into action but this documentary creates what might have happened if Gibraltar had fallen into the hands of the Third Reich which could have altered the course of the war.

Through recreations, interviews, and personal recollections we discovery what might have been done by the Nazi's in their quest to control the Rock.

 

Haha (20 times) :this is the usual Readers Digest Blahblah

The whole thing has been discussed and the conclusion is that Gibraltar was worthless for the Germans .

 

Did you not know?

• ^ Burdick, Charles (1968). German Military Strategy and Spain in World War II. Syracuse, N.Y.: Syracuse University Press. pp. 50–52.
• ^ [SUP]a[/SUP] [SUP]b[/SUP] Waller, John H. (1996). The Unseen War in Europe. I.B. Tauris. pp. 155. ISBN 1-86064-092-3.

Enough to put an army corps into Spain.
Say they need to equip 4 Divisions im sure they is enough transport available from over 120 divisions to do so.

Backed by what allies?
Britain has nothing to put into Spain its army had just been wrecked in the battle of France and what is left is needed to defend England.
Germany has over 100 divisions in France.
I dont think Franco would commit suicide by taking on the Germans.

 

Discussed by who?
You and your pals?

 

It was no key to the control of the Mediterranean,and the importance of the Mediterranean was marginal.

 

On this thread by intelligent people

 

Page after page online talking about the strategic importance of the Rock.
From the BBC to the CIA and beyond.
Google
Even more important 70 years ago.

 

Ahh so it is you and your pals then.
Give me a list of historians that have "debunked the strategic importance of the rock".

 

Did I say Franco would fight the Germans? No, I said..

.. That implies that Franco gives in but Franco giving in does not mean every Spanish citizen would agree and sit back while Germans march there way through making a mockery of them. It is very plausible that if the Spanish are forced to accept terms that there would be those in both government, military and civilians that would actively oppose it be it oppenly or in an underground fashion.

Do I think the USA would invade the Canary islands? Yes I do, With there location and threat from U-boats the US would have good reason for wanting to keep them from German hands and they would act on it otherwise we would not have seen US forces occupying Iceland before they had joined WWII. Iceland was the precedent, The Canary Islands would have been the bigger threat to US shipping. Put 2 and 2 together and you have a situation that all of Congress would agree with for once =).

 

Show me one single plan for the US occupation of the Canary Islands.
The Americans had detailed discussion both in the military and in government on what to do should Spain join the Axis.
You will find many plans for the occupation of Greenland, Iceland, the Azores and even Northern Brazil but not the Canary Islands.