What if Stalin attacked first?

Izaak, having read your posts it appears you despise the West, especially the Americans, and that you forward your opinions as facts, while sweeping aside any facts that don't support you. And now you resort to personal attacks.

 

I also try to look at facts.
The fact is also that a large part of Soviet commanders have been at the Finnish or Japanese fronts and these battles were used as a learning material during training and maneouvers. Thus - the experience of some was spread.

Indeed, size is not everything. Not even after dark. But, as far as I could understand, it does count. Ask the girls. :lol:
One can also say, that by the winter 1941-2 both sides have learned the hard way the art of defending their positions. Already the first ever Soviet attempts to put a defence line in place in November ´41 , in the North, stopped the German army. What I am trying to say, the war was a continuous process of learning on both sides. Btw, the Germans had very good opportunity to learn defence quick, because the Soviet tactics (very stupid) from the very beginning was continuous attempts to counterattack.

 

Gentlemen!

As Moderator, I must ask you not to post such statements as these:

"My impression is even, that some of you despise the Russians in the depth of your hearts. "

"it appears you despise the West, especially the Americans"

It is essentially insulting speculation about other Forum members, which is not part of a good debate.

Please bear this in mind.
Thank you.
Ricky

 

Now, an answer to debate.

When the Soviets counter-attacked ouside Moscow, the Germans had several things going for them.

1) The Soviets had way less material - more troops, but less tanks, less aircraft, less artillery, etc etc - than they did back in June.

2) The Germans were now familiar with Soviet equipment, they knew how to deal with it, knew its weaknesses.

If The Soviets had attacked in June/July, they would have had overwhelming amounts of armour, planes, etc. They had a good strategic plan (bottle up the bulk of the German army, grab the oil fields, etc). They had the benefits that the Germans had (surprise, an enemy caught on the wrong foot because he was expecting to attack, not defend, etc)

As I said before, the Soviets are likely to prevail, just not as swiftly as the Germans did - for the reasons I have stated in a post somewhere on the last page.

 

Cheeky,
Sorry for my rude response. Ricky has just expressed what I had not been able to get through with.
I will not repeat this kind of argumentation.
I apologize.