What if...The Germans knew Enigma was broken by the Allies

This is a good one.

You here all the time that Enigma single handedly changed the course of the war. What if the Germans fed the Allies false info via it?

It was used to track Rommels supplies, tank numbers and conveys
track wolfpacks
warn the soviets of german attacks
warn about crete and enable the commanders to put up a stiffer fight

Could you imagine the consequencies? However I doubt the axis spys could mount such a job as they seem fairly poor

FNG

 

Without the information fed to them through Ultra many Allied leaders would pretty much be in the dark, as can be seen in late 1944 when the Germans simply stopped all radio traffic, coded or not - and opened two offensives in the west fully unexpected. I don't know exactly which operations would have been equally unforeseen without Ultra, though.

Who knows, maybe Kursk could have been succesful?

 

well, the Atlantic convoys would be much harder-pressed

 

Not much , because by 1943 the war in the atlantic was turning in the allies favour because of long range aircraft, and as Roel said they kept radio silence a few years into the war.

 

December 1944 was more than a couple of years in, it was almost the end...

I think a lot would have changed, the long range aircraft for example against subs were only really any use if you have an idea already where the subs are to begin with. The Atlantic is a huge place, a submarine is really a pretty small target to spot.

In the east I don't think too much would have changed. I seem to recall reading that Stalin was suspicious of the Allies and distrusted the Ultra intercepts, so much of the fighting there was carried out with local intelligence. How long into the war that lasted I'm really not sure, I can't truthfully remember the source for this statement either.

In the west the Allies would have been much more cautious in many ways, we can only guess how much the knowledge of where the Germans were and in what strength influenced Allied planning but I think on the ground the Allied commanders would (Rightfully) be a bit more wary.

On the other hand, it was largely thanks to Ultra that the Allied air forces knew which factories to hit and when to maximise disruption of repair efforts and production, without these the strategic bombing campaign would have been much less effective than was historically the case.

 

Stalin did not know about Ultra, the allies told him of "reliable sources" but refused to say anything else. As the known ground evidence and russian sources didn't match the allied info it was not received well

FNG

 

stalin got also a lot of information by the spy "lucy" in switzerland. it was lucy who sended the german plans for Kursk to the russians so they could make theire defences.

Enigma broken, they would just develop a new code until that is broken. i think it was another big mistake of the germans to keep on using that code the whole war. the japs stopped using their purple code somewhere in 1942, after midway.

 

Actually U-boats were required (throughout the war) to make reqular broadcasts back to Germany, repoting on position & weather.

 

and the wolfpack attacks needed all the information about the appraoching convoy from a shadowing boat. and that's a long transmission

 

Re: What if...The Germans knew Enigma was broken by the Alli

Why did the germans envest in enigma and the japanses in *MAGIC* OVer cocky i think

 

Not really. It was unbreakable. Why did White Star invest in HMS Titanic?

 

the only way Enigma could be broken was by putting all scie,tist en mathmatics and codebreaking specialist together and it would take a year before they broke it

enigma was first broken by the polish but they had to use manuals and code books wich pointed the daily codes for the rotors. when enigma used five rotors and only three had to be chonsen randomly, the polish gave up and at that point the britisch went on.

i don't know how they broke magic, i only know something about enigma

 

and what would had happen, if the Royal Navy did not capture U-110 and found the Codierungsmaschine Enigma and the Codebooks on board ?

 

I don't think Ultra ever provided the kind of information that could decide battles, unlike the Magic project in the Pacific that was instrumental in the outcomes at Midway, Leyte Gulf and others and was directly responsible for the removal of the IJN's most gifted leader, Yamamoto.
This, despite the attention devoted to Ultra and the lack of attention devoted to Magic (until recent years anyway) in books, movies etc.

 

in that case they wouldn't been able to crack it. the kriegsmarine used 8 rotors and for the code 3 were choosen at random (and then written down in a codebook so the crews would no it); so enigma from the kriegsmarine had about 10²³ (a 1 with 23 zero's) possibilities)

normal enigma (i explained it already, five rotors, 3 at random choosen) leaves a 1 with 21 zero's of possibillites. so the Brittisch would needed years to crack one message. conclusion. enigma was unbreakable if you didn't had the codebooks

 

Omfg, the crew of U110 should burn in hell for not destroying Enigma and the Codebooks. Idiots!!!!!!! :angry:

 

to my knowledge the captain tried to but lost his life in doing so

 

Very short summary of U110 and its career.
http://www.uboat.net/boats/u110.htm

 

Umm, the fact that they failed at it may have saved lives though, I'm sure you realize that...

 

Yes, however because of that many other lifes were killed in a horrorable death.