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What if United States invades Brazil in 1942

Discussion in 'Alternate History' started by lordroel, Nov 2, 2017.

  1. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    "Better to have a plan and not need it than to need a plan and not have it."
     
  2. lordroel

    lordroel Member

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    But in the end we can agree, this plan by the United States to invade Brazil in case Brazil did something ore join a power not friendly to the United States is interesting.
     
  3. belasar

    belasar Court Jester

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    An interesting tidbit to be sure. When Canada learned a variant of Plan Red involved them in the early 1970's there was a mild scandal. Then again the British had a plan to defend Canada from the US in the early 1920's, so turnabout is fair play.
     
  4. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    The logic behind Plan Red was one of "if a hostile government takes over Great Britain, what will Canada's status be?" The War College was confident that Canada would not automatically switch sides, but a German-controlled Britain would make for some interesting choices for the Canadian government. The war with Germany would effectively be over, and the peace would be "fascinating to watch" to say the least.

    Additionally, the challenges of planning a war with Canada were prime fodder for War College courses. In round numbers the border was ~50% water, ~30% prairie and ~20% mountains. There were coastal issues to deal with on both coasts. All in all, it would make for a fun video game even today.
     
  5. lordroel

    lordroel Member

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    Makes you wonder if the Color codded plans are still in some way ore another being updated.
     
  6. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Do you know how a War College works? It's a graduate school for officers. It's also a think tank for the service that runs it. So, just for the practice of planning such things they would "update" a plan based on current resources and intentions. Education never stops.
     
  7. lordroel

    lordroel Member

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    I do know about U.S. Naval War College War Games: Lets play War Games 1979- 1988
     
  8. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Then you have samples of how it was actually done by professionals. Always a good start.
     
  9. lordroel

    lordroel Member

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    Yes that you are right about.
     
  10. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, however, the Navy War College "war planning" existed the Spanish-American War. It was established in 1884. It was the Joint Army-Navy Board in 1903, that began reviewing the Naval War College plan and recommended whether or not it should be submitted to the President. In 1904, the Joint Board established the "color-coding" for foreign nations and the Army War College was established, partly in order to correct some of the faults seen in that war. The AWC followed the same pattern of student "contingency planning" exercises and the Joint Board continued its function of approving the plans. After World War I, the Joint Board selected a Joint Planning Committee comprised of six senior planning officers from each service, but the War Colleges continued their function of creating plans as part of student exercises. It was the JPC and the Colleges that formulated the RAINBOW plans.
     
  11. lordroel

    lordroel Member

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    Did they also as far as i know conduct during World War II, war games.
     
  12. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    The Assistant Secretary of the Navy, back in 1896-7, reviewed the results of a stand-off at Honolulu, involving German, Japanese, British and US warships, and decided Japan was a threat to the US in the Pacific. He had the War Colleges draw up plans for a war with the Japanese and I'm sure he would have found a way to get that war started, Teddy Roosevelt was good like that. The Span-Am War intervened but the "seeds of Orange" were already planted.
     
  13. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Henry E. Eccles Library
     
  14. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    The War Colleges closed during World War II.
     
  15. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Nah, they just field work. ;)
     
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  16. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Well, at least you are in the Pacific. Close, but no cigar...

    You seem to have confused the Samoan Crisis with some fictitious incident at Honolulu.
    Germany, the United States both had warships there, and they were joined by the British HMS Calliope which was acting as a mediator between the US and German forces...However, Japan was not involved. What finally settled the Crisis was a typhoon in mid-March, 1889, that sank or wrecked all German and US vessels, with the only British warship present, HMS Calliope, being able to make it out of the harbor and ride out the storm at sea.
     
  17. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    No, I'm not an idiot. I know about the Samoan situation. I also know that the captain of the Japanese ship would be heard from later, his name was Togo.
     
  18. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think he said you were, but you do appear to be confusing something? Togo was commander of the Advanced Naval College at Etajima from May 1896 until 1899, so would have been hard put to participate in a confrontation of Hawaii during that period.
     
  19. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    As stated above, this was BEFORE the Span-Am War.
     
  20. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    Never mind, I misread what you wrote. So you're talking about the overthrow of the Hawaiian monarchy? Togo was sent to Honolulu in command of Naniwa in the aftermath and unilaterally denounced the action, while encouraging the British to join him in his symbolic protest of failing to salute the new flag. The Japanese commissioner in the islands ordered him to cease and he was recalled soon after to take up his command at Etajima. I don't think the Prussians were involved, but William Morgan's American Gibraltar apparently covers the event in some detail. Now it looks like a minor kerfluffle and never really got to the level of a "confrontation", but then it was considered more seriously.
     

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