What is your favorite division in either army and why?

You must have read me wrong, I didnt say that some German divisions couldnt be called fanatics its merely that popular culture brings in the Ethnic paintbrush and coats each division in the hideous acts commited by the more "infamous" divisions.


But is it fair to toss politics straight into the judgement of soldiers? From what I understand of your second paragraph I come under the impression that you believe that the term "Nazi" would be more appropriate then "German" because of the mistake they made from voting Hitler into power and the racist stink shoved down their throats by Dr. Goebbels?


The name I chose for this forum was "Totenkopf" because of reading about said division was what sparked my interest in the war history.

 

Not all german were Nazi the Nazi were Hitler and his movement but the German people fought for that movement and when you do that you tend to get tarred with the same brush rightly or wrongly.

 

That was somewhat what I was getting at. It must be considered though that a soldiers pride simply wont allow you to simply surrender right away when you are fighting for your country, but that is the key isn't it? I'm sure that any Heer veteran you ask would tell you that they were fighting for Germany, and not Hitler. While I imagine that some of the SS preferred the idea of thinking themselves as superior.

But I suppose we derailed this far enough anyway.

 

I guess for all soldiers there time in the trenches is so detached from the political leadership of there country you would get the SS loons who believed in the third reich to there dying day but your right most of the germans were fighting for there country and really at the end of the day for themsleves and the guy next to them.

You look at the the fighting in North Africa the germans there couldn,t be classed as fanatics and the same could be said in Italy.

Being realistic a German in WW2 didn,t have much choice but to serve to refuse would be real unhealthy

 

Didn't he have a command in the First Indochina War?

 

Of all the quality Divisions during the War (101st airborne, 2nd NZ, Gurkah, etc) i would have to say the 9th Australian Division would have to best the standout. Held Tobruk against Rommels tanks, and inflicted the first defeat on land for Nazi forces, played the pivitol role in the 2nd Battle of El Alamain, and returned to SWPA to serve with distinction against the Japanese, one of the few allied divisions to serve against all three axis powers

 

They were a top division it,s a shame in the desert war they didn,t form an ANZAC corp with 2nd New Zealand division infantry,9th Australian Division Infantry and convert 6th Australian Division infantry into an armoured division it would have been so powerful the fighting power of the two best Infantry divisions in 8th army with there own armoured support.

 

An ANZAC corps with their own tank support, with a Aussie/Kiwi commander (Morshead/Freyberg/Blamey) would have been excellent. Doubt the English would have allowed it though. I actually read an interesting book about the Kiwi Amoured division in the war, served with great bravery and distinction. An Anzac corps comprised Aussie 6th and 9th division, Kiwi 2nd Division, with Kiwi armoured support, would have been very formidable indeed.

 

It would have been a awesome combination alright the biggest problem we faced in the desert war when our 2nd division was a ten battalion infantry division was getting tank support the brits saw the tanks units as seperate units infantry armour coperation was sadly lacking we payed badly for it a few times.

 

Stevenz, do you have any good links where i can read up on the history of the Kiwi 2nd Div?

 

That is a tough one. As far as divisions go, I'd have to say the 82nd Airborne Division. But if I got to pick any unit, I'd take the 1st Ranger Battalion or the 509th Parachute Infantry Battalion.

 

www.nzetc.org

This website as the official histories avaliable to read and you can also buy them on disk from the site.

I reccommed you take the time and read the official history of the Battle for Crete it is the best book ever written on the topic my grandfather was in the 22nd battalion headquarters company fighting as an infantry man on Crete so i have read as many books as i can find on the topic.

The book had loads of information,New Zealand battle reports comment sfrom Germans who fought in the battle,maps casulty tables for our forces.

The good thing about the book is it doesn,t sugarcoat the battle our infantry were great in the battle from the Rifle company down our guys fought well but from the battalion command up it was a disaster and the book doesn,t try to avoid that if things were done wrong it is admitted not swept under the carpet which is what you want to read when reading the history of a battle.

When you go to the site just go to the history section and you will find all the military sections listed ie WW1,WW2.

There is also in the WW2 section another seperate piece that has been written on the battle for galatas on Crete which was really tough fighting and is a good read.

I also recommend reading the battalion histories of the fighting at cassino it is so well written and the fighting sounded aweful.

 

i have a few favourite army divisions
1.21st

 

Deleted.

Silly me. Wrong theater! All work and no play makes Johnie a real dull boy.

 

Well since we are restricted to N. Africa and the Mediterranean T.O. And a lot of other fine units have been mentioned already, I'll throw this group of guys into the mix who had a lot to prove, not too themselves, but too their country. I nominate: 100 Batt/442nd.C.R.T. "Go For Broke"

While the vast majority of their families were in "relocation camps" The men (boys) of the 442nd. fought at Salerno, Monte Cassino, all thru Italy, rescued the Lost Battalion of the 36 I.D., were one of the 1st. units to liberate "Dachau" and in doing so, became one of the most decorated units (for it's size) of WW2. Unit Decorations: 21 CMOH'S
52 DSC'S
1 DSM
560 Silver Stars
4000 Bronze Stars
9486 Purple Hearts

My hat goes off to these brave boys who soldiered on thru such adversity, during, and even after the war! One of them, Lt. Daniel K. Inouye(MOH) became, and still is to this day, the senior Senator from the State of Hawaii. And while the 21 MOH'S have come under muted critizism, having been upgraded from DSC'S by Pres. Clinton in 2000. I feel that they were well deserved and should have been given to them at the time, but were withheld for (obvious reasons)

 

I submit the II Polish Corps (3rd Carpathian Inf.Div., 5th Kresnowa Inf. Div., 2nd Warsaw Armd. Div.). They certainly had the longest and most tragic journey to the Med. theater. And the Poles were the ones to finally take Monte Cassino. They were also the last to get thier country back.

 

sry posted wrong section

 

My favorites are the german Fallschirmjäger Brigade1 and the british 7th Support Group of Jock Campell. Both were hard fighting groups with a lot of losses. And my Grandpa served in the Fallschirmjäger Brigade1, so thats a family reason too.

Regards

Ulrich

 

The 36th ID and The 1st Special Service Force. My uncle was an original 36th T-Patcher until KIA. Both divisions saw terrible battles.

 

Ulrich, your Grossvater and my uncle may have been in action around Casino Italy.