whats yours????

Michael Wittman was credited with the destruction of 138 Allied tanks and 132 anti-tank guns in less than two years. A little less than half of his kills were stationary targets on the eastern front (very target rich environment) that probably wouldn't have been able to penetrate his tank over the period of a year and a half or more. Pool got his record in 80 days. I think it’s safe to say that if given the same amount of time as Wittman, he would have done allot more damage. Its too bad he fell victim to a truly dramatic career-ending episode involving a German AT gun and his leg.

 

On 19th April 1945 3 King Tigers of Schwere SS Panzer Abteilung 503 wiped out over 100 T34/85s and 20 IS-2s in the space of A FEW MINUTES. They ambushed them in near the road from Bollersdorf to Strausberg (east of Berlin). Later that afternoon the 3 King Tigers wiped out over 30 T34/85s and a large number of IS-2s in a seperate Soviet attack. No exaggerations by the way. This actually happened.

 

nice beast!!!!

 

Those crews must have very sharp to fire enough rounds to destroy 120 tanks in a few minutes! An excellent example of German weapon superiority.

 

Thats an example of German crew superiority, not weapon superiority.

 

Well, I don't know exactly how many minutes it took but none of the 3 king Tigers were knocked out or damaged by reciprocating fire so it must have been quite quick. I believe the Soviet force was in some woods at a halt and the King Tigers took them by surprise. Still I would have thought at least some of the Soviet crews should have managed to get in some telling shots (there were well over 100 of them) even though thick trees hampered their movements so maybe it really did all happen lightening quick. I don't even think the German tank commanders or gunners could tell exactly how many tanks each managed to knock out and who did exactly what but I know that Hauptscharfuhrer Korner possitively tallied 39 kills for his tank in this short engagement. The entire Soviet brigade was completely wiped out.

Seems that like Witmann the forward and rear tanks were knocked out first so movement was impossible and we know how long it took for IS-2 crews to load and fire their two part ammunition.

It also goes to show how basic mistakes were still being made by the Soviets even at this late stage in the war. Imagine coming to a halt in woods and placing the tanks so close together that movement is restricted and presenting an easy target for the enemy?

Still, the 30 T34/85s and many IS-2s that were knocked out later that day were not in a vulnerable position and were still taken care of so maybe this does go to show the superiority of both the German crews AND the King Tiger in good tank conditions? The Soviets suffered very heavy casualties in their final advance on Berlin.

 

If the tanks were located in a forest, it would severely hamper not only movement, but also turret traverse. The 122 mm gun on the JS-2 was quite long, which would make it impossible to traverse it against the German tanks. The T-34's might have been able to traverse, but it is still doubtful.
Thus, if the few tanks which would be able to actually fire at the Tiger II's were eliminated first, it would be a shooting gallery, as panic would probably occur.

 

Yes, you are probably right although I find it hard to believe that every single one of the Soviet tanks couldn't have traversed their turrets. There must have been some left that were capable of doing that. Combined with the quickness of the attack and the fact that possibly the Soviets couldn't tell exactly where the King Tigers were in the woods with all the smoke and explosions going off, plus the slow rate of fire of the IS-2s (the T34/85s would have had minimal impact on the King Tiger's front plate) doubtless it would have been shooting practice for the KTs.

 

They were certainly lucky not to find themselves in the position of the Russian brigade; the six meter barrel of the King Tiger certainly could never have traversed in a forest! In fact, shooting at vehicles in a confined area from an open area is its perfect combat role because the enemy can't bring its superior mobility in play, and has trouble shooting back even if it could matter.

The ground, as analyzed by the Sun Tzu, would qualify somewhere between Encircled ('where the way out is tortuous, and where a small enemy force can strike my larger one') and Death ('where the army only survives if it fights with the courage of desperation') ground. His answer to the situation would be simple: "In Death ground, fight." (The Nine Varieties of Ground, 14.)

 

I forgot to mention that earlier on that same day (19th April 1945) 5 King Tigers of SS 503 plus the 3 King Tigers involved in the later battles destroyed over 70 Soviet tanks on the heights near Grunow.

Added up all this amounts to almost 250 Soviet tanks destroyed by just 8 King Tigers on one day.

A day earlier on 18th April the 10 operational King Tigers of SS 503 destroyed 64 Soviet tanks for the loss of one KT along the road from Protzel to Bollersdorf near the town of Ernsdorf.

After these actions the remainder of the battalion road marched to Berlin where it ended it's days in defence of the city.

 

Yes, because all those destroyed tanks were easily replaced by the Red Army. It's still a very impressive effort, of course, showing great skill and determination on the part of the Konigstiger crews.

 

Yes, on the eastern front in the defence of the German homeland from the advancing Red Army the German forces fought with more determination and bitterness than against the advancing western allies. This is obviously as a result of because what the German occupying forces did in Russia was now being replicated by the Soviets. It's thought that up to 1.5 million German civilians died in the 4 months from Jan to May 1945 as a result of being caught up in the crossfire, as refugees or murder and rape. The German troops were determined to hold the Soviets back as much as they could. Obviously willing to die in the process.

 

When the alternative is such as that shown by Göbbels in his late-war propaganda, I would be willing to die to stop the Soviets, too. And of course, for once the minister of Propaganda was telling the truth, mostly.

 

I like M26 Pershing. Because he can destroyed Tiger and Panther :bang:

 

These battles just underline the fact that, if Hitler would have left his commanders decide on strategy instead of himself, they quite possibly could have bled the Soviets white even after the war was not winable.

 

soviet tanks

my favorite tanks of wwII is

T-34/85 medium tank
IS-2 heavy tank

:angry:

 

Hi Anatoliy, welcome to the forum!
Could you perhaps tell us why you like the Russian armour? Not that i don't, but it's always fun to hear a new perspective.

 

The king tiger because its gun and armour wherer the strogest of all tanks
:bang:

 

no wait i chang my mind the FT-17 is my favorit tank and i don't care what any one says even though it is tecnicaly a ww1 tank i just think it whould be a good policeing tank or 2nd line defence or even a commanders tank 8)

 

Tigers (both Tiger I and King Tiger) would have been perfectly capable of destroying the Pershing too but the truth of the matter is that there was very little confontation between Pershings and Tigers as very tiny numbers of Tigers were in the west by the time the Pershing arrived at the front line. There were also very tiny numbers of Pershings so this made it even rarer.