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Why did Operation Barbarossa fail ?

Discussion in 'Eastern Europe October 1939 to February 1943' started by KiwiTT, Jan 14, 2010.

  1. British-Empire

    British-Empire Member

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    He would obey.
    This was the reason the invasion of Greece was planned behind Hitlers back in case Hitler asked him not to invade as he had done with Yugoslavia.
    Hitler refused requests by his aids and refused to sign a message to Mussolini to ask him to call off the attack when he found out about it the day before even though he was much against the attack.
     
  2. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    Mussolini would not obey :there is no proof of the opposite .
    When Hitler knew of Mussolini's plan,he hurried to the Brenner,hoping he could CONVINCED Mussolini to attack .
     
  3. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    Greece is not the Balkans ;)
    When Hitler announced the revised date,it was because of the attack on Yugoslavia,not because Marita ,that was already scheduled to start in april,without delaying Barbarossa ,the forces needed for Marita were that limited that they could not delay Barbarossa .
     
  4. Triple C

    Triple C Ace

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    According to John Keegan, the weather forecasts were so unfavorable that delays in the invasion was inevitable in any event; rainfall was indeed heavy. If that is true, than the Balkan campaign's impact on Barbarossa would be negligible, since any attrition incurred there was easily off-set by the advantage of using war in the Balkans as a legend for the German preparation against Russia. Glantz states that it is the case. A large part of the German deception campaign depended on masking the forces assembling for Barbarossa with on-going operations in the Balkans.
     
  5. British-Empire

    British-Empire Member

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    No you are wrong.
    The attack occured before Hitler arrived at Brenner and against the wishes of his aids he made no request of Mussolini not to attack.
    Mussolini obeyed Hitler on Yugoslavia earlier so this would have been no different.
    Mussolini was very much the junior partner at this stage.
     
  6. British-Empire

    British-Empire Member

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    Of course Greece is in the Balkans!
    Christ.
    The invasion of Greece could not happen if Germany could not pass through Yugoslavia.
    Think you best get out an Atlas.
    Thus with the Balkan invasion Barbarossa was delayed by Hitler himself on advice of his Generals.
    These are historical facts.
     
  7. British-Empire

    British-Empire Member

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    The concern with swollen rivers in Eastern Poland and Belarus would not have been enough to delay the operation from what I have read.
    But even if this was to be the case by June 1st the weather and ground conditions was considered favourable.
    This giving the Germans an extra 22 days summer campaign time at the very least.
     
  8. British-Empire

    British-Empire Member

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    The benefits of an early campaign with no Balkan interlude far out weights anything else.
    A Barbarossa starting with 8 extra divisions 2 of which are armoured plus around 200 extra aircraft (wasted, in repair or in occupation in the Balkans) would have greatly helped too.
    The use of airborne troops (no Crete debacle) could have also speeded up the invasion.
    Later in the year around 100,000 Italian troops sent to Army Group South would free up more Germany infantry to complete the surrounding of Moscow.
    An early start date for Barbarossa would mean Moscow itself could be surrounded by early October before the Autumn rains stopped most movement.
    The question is whether the Germans can hold on round Moscow through the Winter.
    If they do it is very likely that Leningrad will fall freeing up more troops for a greater push in the Caucasus in 1942.
     
  9. Kruska

    Kruska Member

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    Why did Operation Barbarossa fail ?

    After Barbarossa fell of his horse into the river he suffered an imediate heart stroke, due to the cold mountain water.

    It was too late for an operation then - one might also say that the operation failed, since he was already declared dead.

    As for the other Barbarossa;

    When Hitler realized about the strenght of the Soviets and the losses the Wehrmacht and its allies had sustained, his career suffered an immediate stroke - as such the operation failed since Hitler knew then that he was dead anyway.

    Since technology had advanced in the past 800 years, Hitler wasn't declared dead straight away, but was kept artificially alive until 1945 when the plug was pulled.

    Regards
    Kruska
     
  10. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    I think you and I are talking about another Balkans:D
    For Marita,the German troops would not pass trough Yugoslavia ,but trough Hungary,Rumania and Bulgary
     
  11. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    See :the German campaign in the Balkans (Part II and III)on History. army.mil/Books
     
  12. British-Empire

    British-Empire Member

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    :rolleyes:Map of the Balkans for you.

    File:Balkan topo en.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    As for the invasion of Greece you should actually do some reading on it.
    Yugoslavia was vital in the attack on Greece as the Germans had to pass through South Yugoslavia in order to out flank the Metaxas line.

    An invasion map for you.

    File:Battle of Greece - 1941.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  13. British-Empire

    British-Empire Member

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  14. British-Empire

    British-Empire Member

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    Field Marshall Wilhelm Keitel stated that "The unbelievable strong resistance of the Greeks delayed by two or more vital months the German attack against Russia; if we did not have this long delay, the outcome of the war would have been different in the eastern front and in the war in general, and others would have been accused and would be occupying this seat as defendants today".
     
  15. hucks216

    hucks216 Member

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    I think another factor for the failure of Barbarossa was the combination of a lack of manpower, especially once losses outstripped replacements, to cover the ever expanding front line and the transport & logistical problems this caused and has already been mentioned in previous posts.
    With the invasion in the west in 1940, and Poland in 1939, the size of the area to be invaded was basically the same from north to south, whereas the further east the Germans pushed into Russia the greater the area to be covered - like attacking into a funnel from the narrow end if that makes any sense.
    A great book to read on this subject, and one I highly recommend is War Without Garlands: Operation Barbarossa 1941-1942 by Robert Kershaw...
    War Without Garlands: Operation Barbarossa 1941-1942: Amazon.co.uk: Robert Kershaw: Books

    And Andrew Roberts book The Storm Of War (another one I highly recommend. He was given access to the UK's largest private collection of German wartime documents in his research, some that have never been made public before) mentions with reagards to the Balkan 'adventure' & Barbarossa ...

    "The invasion was originally scheduled to be ready for 15 May, although that was not settled upon as the date of attack. Once Halder had assured him that transport would be ready, Hitler chose 22 June for the attack, since any date much earlier than that would have run up against weather problems in that unusually wet spring. The invasion of Greece had always been planned to take place in conjunction with that of Russia and did not therefore lead to the postponement of Barbarossa. Re-equipping tanks that had driven too fast down bad Balkan roads took time, so in a sense the very speed of the defeat of Greece led to the late date for Barbarossa.
    Although Hitler was to blame the pushing back of the 15 May date to 22 June as a reason for his defeat, claiming that he could have won before the onset of winter, his biographer Ian Kershaw has rightly described that as 'simplistic in the extreme'. It was too wet to invade very much earlier, with heavy tanks and trucks going down rutted, basic roads. The weather of 1941 was not kind to Adolf Hitler.It is often assumed that he should not have indulged in his Balkan, Greek & Crete campaigns in April and May because they delayed his assault on Russia. In fact it was because he could not invade Russia before June that he was able to indulge himself in south-west Europe and the Mediterranean at all
    ."
     
  16. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Personally I can only think of the fact that Hitler was adamant that once the attack begins the USSR collapses. At the same time Hitler was sending men home from duty from several units ( spring-june 1941) and also production figures were not made any higher on the contrary because that was not considered necessary. If the Army was totally exhausted driving the same tanks since June 22 and not getting any replacements of anything, it seems to me starting May 15 even with good weather and no rivers stopping the movement,
    does not really help solve the barbarossa problem.
     
  17. British-Empire

    British-Empire Member

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    All well and good apart from the fact weather and ground conditions were judged fine by June 1st.
     
  18. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    But swollen rivers are only part of the problem. As or more important are what happens to the (dirt) roads.
    Source please.
     
  19. JagdtigerI

    JagdtigerI Ace

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    I am always perplexed by the idea that simply throwing some extra divisions into the mix will solve the German's problems. More divisions will simply bog down German logistical capabilities more so than they already were and spread the already thin supplies at the front over a larger amount of people.

    Around Moscow by Nov. neither army really had much offesive capbilities, and it wasn't because of a lack of troops, certainly not for the Soviets. You must remember that the fall rains were slowing the German advance down nearly as much as the winter. In fact, winter was in some ways helpful for the Germans actually, as they could finally advance on the frozen roads. Furthermore, this whole idea is really hinged on the fact that taking Moscow would cause the entire Soviet Union to fall. This is completely unsupported by any of the actions the Soviets took concerning Moscow in 1941.
     
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  20. British-Empire

    British-Empire Member

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    The problem of the mud season which began in October can be avoided if the attack comes early and Moscow is surrounded.
    In fact it will prevent a Soviet counter attack for around a month too giving the Germans much time to dig in.
    As for logistical demands they were being met till December.
     

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