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WMD's in Iraq

Discussion in 'The Stump' started by lwd, Apr 1, 2015.

  1. Bundesluftwaffe

    Bundesluftwaffe New Member

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    Mr. LWD I try to make this my last reply to you with this quote of yours " Keep posting garbage like the above and you simply are a waste of bandwidth adding nothing but noise to the signal this forum produces."

    Garbage, clown, waste.... were YOUR words. Guess that´s more insulting than "knowitall". But you can keep up with empty words and insults, guess meanwhile most here are used to it.
    However this waste of bandwith you do, can be kept to a minimum (which you also can use as you don´t like my posts). The magic tool is "ignore". Why I even bother? You claim to know more than 4star generals and other professionals, also the evidence and research of others (eg. mine) supports Gen. Clark in this case.

    And what is even more confusing, the canadian site you claim is "anti-american" lol Canada is your friend, it seems you see imaginary enemies everywhere (Canada, Middle East, Russia, China etc)... it seems you are your own enemy to me.
     
  2. Bundesluftwaffe

    Bundesluftwaffe New Member

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    Good to know, please include LWD, too ? He started name-calling....but I will ignore LWD now, waste of time :) As clearly can be seen from his "arguments" lol
    Even more funny, this is the "free fire zone", so I did not care about LWDs insults much, strange if I say harmless things to LWD than you come with your strange remark... pls. be more impartiell thanks.

    Btw. do you have something objective too to add to the discussion, eg. to Gen. Clark´s speech?

    Also I wanna ask others, LWD seems to imply that this Canadian site (and Gen. Clark too then?? who served for years for his country) are "anti american"... how so, it seems they are pro american as they warn and inform the US people....
     
  3. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    It's a reasonable description of the content of your posts. That you consider it an insult is your problem. It is firmly in the spirit of "attack the post and not the poster" which you seem to have a problem understanding.

    Nothing magic about "ignore". I personally have a hard time ignoring garbage posts. The first few times someone post them I have hopes that they will learn and try to post with that in mind. If it become apparent that they are either interested or able to learn then it's simply a matter of correcting their errors for the benefit of others who read these boards.

    Where did I claim that? I merely indicate that you can't trust biased sources to state the truth and the greater the bias that is displayed the less likely they are to portray the truth.

    Then why don't you present it? Of course it would be better in it's own thread as it doesn't appear relevant here.

    ????? What an absurd world view. In countries like the US and Canada where there really is free speach their are numerous organizations taking extreme stances on most topics. Some of the most "anti-American" statements I've seen have been published here in the US.

    By the way the attempt to muddy the waters with the Clark video almost worked. I initially started finding all the problems with it before I realized that it had nothing to do with the topic of this thread and was simply another attempt at diversion on your part as your previous statements had been well refuted.
     
  4. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Yeah, he's a "conspiracy nut" all right...

    Let's see...a total of seven countries, beginning with Iraq, then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and finishing off Iran."

    Well. Iraq - Check. Syria - No(that did not happen for another 10 years and took place on Obama's watch, and well after the mentioned men were gone). Lebanon - No. Libya - No(that did not happen for another 10 years and took place on Obama's watch, and well after the mentioned men were gone). Somalia - Been there done that under Clinton, and the country hasn't been right since. Sudan - No. Iran - No.

    Oh well...One out of six isn't bad. Better luck next time.

    Thanks for playing. Please come again.
     
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  5. Bundesluftwaffe

    Bundesluftwaffe New Member

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    Well plan delayed,

    - Syria yes, was tried and is or was probably still in place under disguise of fighting "ISIS". It was tried to blame Assad using gas....didn´t work.
    - Iraq, A´stan, Lybia check
    - Iran was planned probably - maybe still in the line.
    - Lebanon - if you count in Israel maybe...
    - Sudan - isn´t there kind of war just now ? Or bombings etc? (mh, I may confuse this with Jemen :p )

    No plan survives contact with the enemy, you might know this ?

    Also seems they took some other direction meanwhile (Ukraine)...
     
  6. Takao

    Takao Ace

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  7. Bundesluftwaffe

    Bundesluftwaffe New Member

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    Good article, Clark seems right. Also he seems not to be a warmonger....

    "Huffington quoted Clark as saying that the idea of bombing Iran before exhausting diplomatic avenues was “outrageous.” According to Huffington, she then asked Clark what made him so sure that the United States is headed in the direction of attacking Iran, and he replied: “You just have to read what’s in the Israeli press. The Jewish community is divided, but there is so much pressure being channeled from the New York money people to the office seekers.”"

    Isn´t the Wall Street in New York ? Also seems he does not support the extremists in Israel, some of ém have "nice" ideas. Like nuking Germany etc. :eek:

    In regards to some elements in Israel, can I suggest this thread, in which even a brave crewman reports from the ship "USS Liberty"
    http://www.ww2f.com/topic/54130-uss-liberty-controversy/
     
  8. Bundesluftwaffe

    Bundesluftwaffe New Member

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  9. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    As I said...10 years too late, my friend, and under a Democrat's watch. And Remember that Democrat Clark is making Republican out to be the Big Bads behind all this.


    As I already stated earlier...Check.



    Not one of Wesely Clark's "Seven", I'm afraid...Perhaps, they misspelled Sudan.


    Uncheck Libya...As I said...10 years too late, my friend, and under a Democrat's watch. And Remember that Democrat Clark is making Republican out to be the Big Bads behind all this.



    That is a pretty long-winded way to say N. O.



    Ah...Another N. O.

    Your count has not improved.


    Yeah...That's Yemen.

    Your really are making all this crap up as you go along...

    Called it!


    So sayeth the "Conspiracy Theorist."

    All Hail the Illuminati!

    Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmm.


    Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Sure. The Republican "Big Bads" that Clark was haranguing about are all gone.

    Or is this some new Democratic Conspiracy Theory? After all, the one you tried to present against the Republicans was totally butchered, so why not start one against the Dems?

    Or maybe...It really is the Illuminati!!!

    Dum Dum Dum....

    Que Star Wars "Imperial March"
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bzWSJG93P8
     
    USS Washington likes this.
  10. Bundesluftwaffe

    Bundesluftwaffe New Member

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    Cool, I am star wars fan, how did you know ?

    I don´t know about your Dem´s and Rep´s stuff as this is inner US. And I don´t care, I care of geo strategic aims, de-stabilization of countries and grab of raw materials tho. Cause these are most of the war aims, wouldn´t you say so ? I thought you would refrain from phantasy land, Takao. Illuminati etc. you believe in this stuff ? :eek: Interestingly you also use language like "crap" etc. - who runs out of arguments needs to I guess (see LWD). Fact is what Clark reports, has already happened to a large part... A plan that was made (to his statement) in 1991 or before, of course will not have the exact timeline and works without hickups, right ? Compared to other posts from you, the above one seems quite weak :(
     
  11. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Hmmmm........

    Odd...Very Odd....


    At that time...Clark was an "office seeker", and had been for some time.

    Wonder how much cash he took from the New York money people?

    Or, perhaps, that is why he is decrying them...The did not consider him worthy enough to partake of their riches?

    This has been fun and all, but we digress from the topic.
     
  12. Bundesluftwaffe

    Bundesluftwaffe New Member

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    So WHO in your opinion is honest and worthy ? Clark is not apparently......also he was right on the mark.... I guess every "officer seeker" to a decree get´s funding from certain 3rd parties. Depends from whom and how much.....if let´s speculate energy, weapons and oil companies "fund" or "donate" to a certain party/candidate you can expect, this party/person was selected to support most of their aims........ that´s only logical and natural. Some call it lobbying some others bribery..........You disagree?


    Well seems Clark was right on the "MONEY" (in double sense):

    https://www.opensecrets.org/pres04/contrib.php?cid=N00008072

    Mostly banks "funded" Bush campaign.


    Here more about oil/gas firms "donations":

    https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/background.php?cycle=2014&ind=E01
     
  13. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Eveyrbody is. Or the just don't know it yet.


    Oh, so your just your basic anti-American conspiracy theorist. Bummer. Here I was hoping you would be bringing something new to the table, not just rehashing the same old stuff from decades ago.


    Destabilized nations benefit no one...Especially Big Businesses.

    And raw materials...China is getting about 50% of Iraq's crude exports. Except I don't remember them be involved in Gulf War I or II.

    Afghanistan...Outside of Opium, do they have anything worthy of export?


    I go where you lead...



    Forgive me, my sarcasm was lost on you.



    I could call your "theories" something baser, but this is a "family friendly" board, and I must do my bit to keep it so.


    However, if you would prefer, I could call you "theories"..."toro crapo". It gets the point across, adults get the meaning, most children won't, and it is fun to say.


    One out of six nations...That is 17%. 17% is an F on the grading scale. I can't give you anything lower, because that is as low as the scale goes.



    Yes...A "supposed" plan that was made by men no longer in power, based on a "supposed" plan by men who are no longer in power.

    This is what you fail to grasp.

    Of course, as LWD mentioned the color-coded War Plans, back when we had a plan to go to war with near about every one.
     
  14. Bundesluftwaffe

    Bundesluftwaffe New Member

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    Well give me 3-4 examples of politicians and/or high millitary guys you actually support or like....... up to now I see only contempt of everyone... is their someone you actually like or support ? Also in regards to "anti american" I can attest that some of you seem to be keen to uphold this prejustice quite well....

    More from you:

    "Destabilized nations benefit no one...Especially Big Businesses."

    Clearly wrong, eg. in case of Iraq severall western (mostly UK/US) companies benefitted. Someone needs to build up a destroyed country too right? And bring oil production in swing again... or not? So what about all the weapons and munitions..............were they all donated by the companies for free ? Do I need to even explain such basics? Questions over questions...


    "And raw materials...China is getting about 50% of Iraq's crude exports. Except I don't remember them be involved in Gulf War I or II."

    Well China pays for the oil I guess....


    "Afghanistan...Outside of Opium, do they have anything worthy of export?"

    A´stan, important geo strategic position, planned oil pipeline (unocal), also heard of rare earths :) Plenty to gain there.
     
  15. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    I don't think the US has had an honest politician since Harry S. Truman.


    Most of the smart ones give to both candidates, that way they "cover all their bases." That way, no matter who wins, they will win.

    I usually come down on the "bribery" side of lobbying myself.


    Makes sense. The Repubs are friends of big business and who owns much of the business stock, the banks.

    Yes, in a double sense...Several of those same banks: Goldman Sachs, Citigroup Inc., UBS AG, JP Morgan Chase & Co., Bank of America, also gave to the Gore Campaign, but the biggest contributors to Gore were the "Intellectuals", banks, law firms, and big business
    https://www.opensecrets.org/pres04/contrib.php?cycle=2004&cid=N00000245

    Just looked up Wesley Clark's contributions...And whaddya know...The several of the same banks were dropping coin to him too.
    https://www.opensecrets.org/pres04/contrib.php?cycle=2004&cid=N00026187
     
  16. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Harry S. Truman
    Franklin D. Roosevelt
    Abraham Lincoln
    Thomas Jefferson
    George Washington

    Yes, I pretty much have nothing but contempt for most of today's politicians and party front-runners. They don't inspire confidence, and they don't inspire me.


    Yawn...There are always more buildings to be built somewhere...Yeah, there is lots of new construction going on in my locality to...Problem is they are building, but few companies are actually occupying here. Building is only a quick fix, the real money comes with the businesses that occupy those buildings. That is where the money is.

    Bring oil production online...And when the job is done...Then what?

    What about all those weapons and munitions? Were they not on hand all all ready? Did we not just have a discussion on the possibility of closing the only factory producing tanks in the US? The only factory in the US(York, Pennsylvania)that was producing the Bradley has been struggling to get by for years. The Striker is produced in Canada - That's not even in the US...

    Seems that you only partially thought this one out.


    Yeah, they do...And so does India, and so does the US.

    Now, if the US went to war in Iraq over oil...supposedly twice...Why, are we third on the list of Iraqi oil export countries? And why were we paying more for oil when the wars was over?

    Apparently, we did not go to war over oil...And we most certainly did not go to war for "cheap" oil.



    There is no UNOCAL pipeline, that was cancelled years ago...Almost a decade now.

    Heck! The company ceased operations in August 2005, when they were bought out by Chevron.

    But, let's see...How long do you think a vast pipeline will last in a destabilized country? Not long at all I'm afraid.

    Mining of rare minerals in a destabilized country? Don't see that lasting very long.
     
  17. green slime

    green slime Member

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    WRT Afghanistan:

    ""What becomes very, very obvious in Afghanistan is the huge amount of pre-planning that has to take place in order to visit any site in that country, such as who is going to provide security and how much security is needed. You also have to plan how you are actually going to get to some place, as for most of the sites in Afghanistan, you cannot drive there — our work involved helicopters, and for our safety, we couldn't be on the ground very long to get samples.""

    Further:

    "However, developing a mining industry in Afghanistan faces major challenges. "One of the biggest challenges is security," Medlin said. "Another challenge is the lack of infrastructure. We're talking about access to energy, which is required to develop mines. We're talking access to roads, railroads and so forth. We're also talking about access to water, which is needed in most mining operations. It's all a big challenge, but it's doable. It won't happen overnight, but it's doable.""

    http://www.livescience.com/47682-rare-earth-minerals-found-under-afghanistan.html

    It remains to be seen if the Afghani government is capable enough to develop this resource without the typical corruption and cronyism. There is a large likelihood of actually worsening the situation. Those rare earth metals are not going to dig themselves out of the ground.
     
  18. Bundesluftwaffe

    Bundesluftwaffe New Member

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    Ah ok, Takao, we agree on some things, fine.... :)

    Well I also have no problem to be the only "conspiracy nut" in this forum, take it as an compliment, thanks :)



    It´s true that developing the riches of A´stan proves problematic... bad infrastructure etc.... As I also stated before I think A´stan is doubtful (there might be some legitmate reason to go there I mean even if I don´t support it)....while the orig. case made in this thread was Iraq which remains an illegitimate war.
     
  19. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Actually no. We've provided fairly strong arguments against that position while all you do is to keep repeating your opinion on the matter.
     
  20. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    Some articles on US involvement in Iraq and her chemical weapons programs...

    http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/26/exclusive-cia-files-prove-america-helped-saddam-as-he-gassed-iran/

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-153210/Rumsfeld-helped-Iraq-chemical-weapons.html

    The following article contradicts those who claim that Iraq was in breach of UN resolution of disarmament...

    http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/27c/126.html

    I must say that I have yet to see any "strong arguments" in favor of war in Iraq. This opinion is held by the majority of the word (yes I said world) and the U.S. Population.

    In a separate question Iraq better of today then it was under Sadam?
     

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