Yamato verses Iowa

Welcome to the forum, and I do hope you post again before December, 2014!

You might want to use our search engine to locate some lively debates on the presence of either the "Iowa's" or McCain' Task Force to intercept the Northern Group coming or going.

 

If the US battleline and escorts are waiting for Kurita it's likely to replicate Surigao Strait. The tactical factors give the US a significant edge although with Type 93's and 18" projectiles an upset is possible.

 

I'm late to this thread but as to the original question of the Yamato vs Iowa, it seems to me that Iowa could use her big edge in speed to stay out of range until a nice moonless and cloudy night came along and then close to ten or fifteen miles and sink Yamato with radar directed gunfire.

 

In any case Iowa has a distinct edge in fire control due to radar if they are firing over 30,000 yards. That's also the range where her shells should be effective against most of Yamato's decks. If escorted Iowa can also have her escorts lay smoke screens between the battleships. Yamato also has some fire control radar but it's not nearly as effective as that of Iowas.

 

Loved the bit about the elite on the Yamato's. How long does one stay elite on ships that almost never left Truk, Lingga or Tawi due to lack of fuel? That elite edge is looong gone.

 

never discount the factor of luck, the BIsmark took a hit early that disabled both forward batteries, eliminating any hope.

 

Jim Dunigan and Al Nofi looked into this for their book Victory at Sea and concluded, based on data analyis, that a squadron of Iowas would probably have defeated a squadron of Yamatos.

 

I thought it was the guns. Still the point is that a lucky hit can have a huge impact.

 

Yes and no, yes and no.

The "lucky hit" on the HMS Hood certainly had a huge impact on that battle, but that was only a two-vs-two battle. However, the hit on the Bismarck's forward range finder had decidely less of an impact on the outcome of the battle. You have to remember that the Bismarck could not stear a straight course, due to the stern torpedo hit earlier in the chase, so the Bismarck's main battery directors were already operating with a reduced efficiency. Then, you have to remember that, in the final battle, the Bismarck was engaged not only by the two British battleships, but by several British cruisers and destroyers.

The "lucky hits" on the Bismarck were 1.) The PoW hit that damaged the Bismarck's fuel tanks - the signifigance of this hit was not readily apparent, at first, it was only later when the trapped oil could not be recovered from those tanks, that the Bismarck was forced to reduced her speed. and 2.) The torpedo hit on the Bismarck's stern that jammed the rudders. Any and all other hits on the Bismarck were just "sauce for the goose."

Still, IIRC, most naval battle don't turn on a "lucky hit." Dogger Bank and Jutland, especially Jutland, did not "turn" on "lucky hits". Nor did any of the naval battles around Guadalcanal, Coral Sea, Midway, the Philippine Sea, Leyte Gulf, Surigao Strait, etc.

So, in summation, "lucky hits" are just that...lucky. You don't want to bet your life, or the outcome of a battle, on them.

 

All I meant is that while yes the hit did not affect the outcome, a hit like that could make a difference in another battle. As I said could

 

Just finished reading "A Glorious Way to Die" by Russell Spurr about Yamato's last voyage (review ASAP). Have to wonder just how well she could do against say a pair of Iowa's over all. Her Armor and guns were great, but her crew readiness is in serious question. Her shooting at Leyte Gulf was not spectacular and so much time either laid up or performing "escort" duties, plus an unreliable radar has to call into question if she could do enough damage to the more nimble (battleship, nimble..I made a funny) and presumably faster firing Iowa's.

If she got hits they could be devastating, but in almost any situation the Iowa's would seem to have the advantage of choosing battle or not or maneuvering to force her to split her targeting.

 

At approximately 0905 Bismarck took a hit (or possibly two) from Rodney and both forward batteries ceased fire. A final salvo was noticed from one of the batteries later in the battle (I'm pretty sure this is the one you mention at 0927). It's not clear if it was even aimed and may have been the rounds in the guns "cooking off". German practice seems to have been to flood the magazines of adjacent turrets when a hit was scored on or near one that might cause a confligration. Scharnorst at one point in her final battle flooded the magazines of two of her turrets then latter pumped out the still operational turrets magazine and resumed fire with that turret.

 

Well a stradle at 30,000+ yards that gets close enough to damage your target with an opening salvo is pretty good in my book. I'm not sure how many additional salvos she got off and they may not have fired her guns enough to get a good read on the effects of barrel heating. Between the smoke, the rain squals, the torpedos, and the arial attacks it also wasn't really an environment condusive to good shooting.

 

There is a book coming out by Robert Lundgren which has very credible evidence that Yamato hit White Plains at like 34,000 yards and the older Kingo achieving a hit at like 30,000 yards. We had a discussion about this over on warships1.com. I'll see if I can find the relevant thread over there. It also seems that it was Yamato that hit the Johnston three times not the the Kongo which down through the ages has been given the credit.

mainly this thread ...
http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/topic/17714/Battle-Leyte-Gulf-Center-force-intercepted-Oldendorf?page=1

 

When would the battle take place? Early in the war, US didn't know how to use the radar, and action often disrupted the new electronics. US did not fare too well in night action off GuadalCanal, even though they had radar. I don't know.

 

Well with the Iowas involved it won't be early war. Washington did pretty well off the 'Canal with her radar. Of course that was a particularly messy place to use the radars of the time.

 

I think especially in a night action, Iowa would have landed hits before the Yamato could have gotten off any well aimed rounds. Better radar and fire control, and boy, the Yamato would have STOOD OUT on the scope.

 

I've heard that the US practiced firing through smoke screens as well which would have helped the better US radar fire control even in daylight. Not to mention radar gives better ranges at long range and if you have the right display can show you the position of your opponent relative to the center of impact of a salvo.

This thread is somewhat relevant to the discussion as well:
http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/topic/17714/Battle-Leyte-Gulf-Center-force-intercepted-Oldendorf?page=5

 

I've read that too. They could see the fall of shot on the radar scope